He Was Supposed to Be a Doctor…Then He Risked Everything for His Passion | Mena Massoud | Gents Talk

[00:00:12] If we can normalize these conversations and help more men understand the importance of working through whatever is ailing them, then maybe, just maybe, we can start to change the narrative around men's mental health. And it starts by having more of these kinds of conversations because, firstly, welcome to Gents Talk. Thank you very much. And secondly, people will recognize you. They'll recognize the work that you've done and they'll see the success.

[00:00:39] But rarely do people actually see what it takes to get there and the sacrifices that you've probably made. So I think I want to kick this conversation off by asking you directly, what do I need to understand about who you are right now to understand the person that you are? I guess a little bit about my background. My parents are immigrants. I'm an immigrant, technically, even though we immigrated to Canada when I was very young, three years old, three and a half years old.

[00:01:07] I grew up really focusing on the academics. So math, science, all those kinds of laborious, studious subjects is what I focused on. My sisters are both pharmacists. My parents wanted me to be a doctor. For a while, they convinced me that I wanted to be a doctor as well for a long time.

[00:01:30] I think because when you're young, your parents kind of shape a lot of who you are and how you think and what you want to be and all that kind of stuff. But deep down inside, I kind of knew that I wanted to be a performer of some sort. That was, I think I knew at a young age that was my calling and what I was passionate about.

[00:01:54] But I was just continuously convinced, not just by my parents, but my community, because I spent a lot of time in my community. I grew up Coptic Christian. So I went to church like three times a week, spent a lot of time with that community as well. And also in that community, a bunch of immigrants who want their kids to be doctors or engineers or something like that. So for a while, I was convinced that I was going to be a doctor.

[00:02:24] And I went to theater school or I went to high school also thinking that, but doing the arts on the side. My parents were okay with me doing acting and arts on the side, as long as it was a side project and hobby. And so I did that. But then I found some champions on the way that were like, hey, you're good at this. You should maybe think about doing this professionally. You've got what it takes. I ended up going to the University of Toronto for neuroscience.

[00:02:50] I got on a role the first year, but I didn't tell my parents because at the same time, I had decided that I was going to audition for theater school to see if I would get in. I was basically sitting in calculus class at U of T one day. And even though I was good at it, I was just thinking, I can't imagine doing this for the rest of my life. Like I'm going to regret not at least trying to do what I want to do, which is become a professional actor.

[00:03:20] So I auditioned for theater school with the help of one of my high school drama teachers, Dory Elliott, who was one of those champions along the way that I found. And so she helped me prepare for these auditions at Ryerson because you had to prepare like a play in three minutes, a contemporary monologue, Shakespeare monologue. You had to prepare all this stuff. So she helped me do it. And I kind of all did it behind my parents back.

[00:03:42] I never told my parents I was doing it because in my head, I was like, why would I upset them if I'm not going to end up going through with this or I'm not going to end up getting in to the program? They only took 30 kids. So I got in and the rest is kind of history.

[00:04:01] But the reason that I say all this is in order to understand a part of who I am, maybe a part that a lot of people don't know, you have to understand that I grew up doing the maths and sciences growing up. So I have a very analytical brain. I have a very kind of logical approach to things. I'm a planner. I plan things out years in advance. I like sticking to a plan.

[00:04:29] And being in this industry is the complete opposite of that. So it's chaos. And you can't plan for it in a lot of ways. So I think that's what I still, those two things kind of fight each other all the time. Because in my brain, I would have been a good doctor because I plan things out and I calculate things and I'm very analytical and like doing this. But my industry that I chose is not like that at all.

[00:04:57] So those two things are in conflict constantly. How do you navigate being in an industry where rejection is more prevalent than success? It's difficult. It's a difficult thing, especially because I have a lot of childhood trauma surrounding that in the sense that, you know, I was bullied when I was a kid. I grew up in Markham, Ontario. And Markham at the time did not have a lot of ethnic kids. You know, my high school was known to be primarily Caucasian.

[00:05:26] It wasn't, you know, a very ethnic place. There were people of color there for sure. And those tended to be my friends and the people that I gravitated towards because I think we all shared this unspoken, you know, similarity. Which is that we're all ethnic. And so I was bullied a lot in elementary school for being different. And I think that plays, you know, a sense in this, you know, this idea of rejection.

[00:05:55] My father was very hard on me growing up, on both of us. Not in a bad way, but he just wanted us to always kind of aim for perfection. Again, something that's not possible in the arts because it's very subjective. It's not objectively you're perfect or not. So, you know, I'd come home from school with like a 90% on my math report. And instead of saying good job, he'd be like, let's sit down and see where the other 10% went. You know, what's missing.

[00:06:22] And so those things obviously affected me and still affect me in my career. Because first of all, you can't grade a performance. And secondly, there's a ton of rejection and there's a ton of lack of reasoning. You know, when you don't book an acting job, they don't call you back and go, well, we decided to go with this other guy because of one, two, three. They just don't call you. You know, you just don't hear anything from them. The worst kind of ghosting.

[00:06:52] Yeah. So it's something that I've had to overcome because I grew up so much as an academic student. Yeah. Choosing a very non-academic career path. Walk me through, you know, the life of an actor, specifically the idea that you can put your all into an audition, really fall in love with the part and sort of envision yourself being a part of the film, the show.

[00:07:21] So, and then just when you never hear back, how do you reconcile that rejection? Because I've had enough actors on this podcast now tell me that, you know, it hurts. There are moments where you're just like, man, I really thought I was good for that one. And you want to be happy for your peers, some of whom are friends. But there's a part of you that still goes, I really, really wanted that. And I would have been great for that. Yeah. I think it's all your mentality.

[00:07:49] So I just had this happen to me last week, actually. I got really close to a series. Really close. And it's happened to me a few times in the last couple of years, which is actually a good thing because for me, it tells me that I'm close. I'm getting close. And for all my friends that have ever seen book anything big, they always get close before they book it.

[00:08:08] You know, very rarely or maybe never have I seen any of my colleagues get something huge without them having gotten close a bunch of times before, right? Like when I booked Aladdin, everybody thought that, you know, it just came out of woodwork and just overnight and I just booked it. I mean, the reality is I had been acting professionally at that point for about six years and getting a lot of rejection and no's.

[00:08:33] And the universe has an interesting way of evening its, you know, evening its evening. Am I saying that? Evening? Yeah. Evening. Yeah. Evening itself out. Yeah. Not the morning and not the evening, but evening. Yeah, exactly. It has a way of calibrating itself, you know, in that even a lot of people maybe that might have looked at that and gone, well, six years is nothing. You booked Aladdin. Well, I had a lot of struggles after that, you know?

[00:09:01] So I think you have to put in the effort and the time no matter what. Yeah. So these people, including myself, who have booked something big, always kind of are getting close before they book it. So the way I deal with the rejection mostly is to just try not to think about it, is to go, I'm going into the audition as an opportunity to give my take on this character and that's it.

[00:09:26] Don't get married to the character or the take or the whatever and move on with your life. And a lot of my friends who had, you know, I grew up with having a lot of auditions, it's easy to do that when you have a lot of auditions. You know, some of my colleagues had two, three auditions a week. That's never happened to me before in my life. But to them, it did. And it's easy to move on when you have two or three a week because you just got to move on and keep doing the work.

[00:09:54] It's difficult when you get an audition every month or every two months or every whatever it is because then you're fixated on that one thing. Like, so you've got to find a way to keep yourself occupied and keep yourself busy. That's, I think, the number one thing. And for me, the way I've dealt with it over the years is to just think about all the wins that I've had. You know, when I don't book something, it's like, damn, I really wanted it. I wish I would have booked that. But it's all good. I booked a lot. You know what I mean?

[00:10:24] Like, that was a huge win. You can't have them all. You know, so I think that's how I personally deal with it. Can anybody be an actor? No. No. God, no. For a few different reasons. For one, I think a lot of people think that anyone can be an actor and that, A, you don't really need training to be an actor. You just have to have a God-given talent for it.

[00:10:54] And, B, that, you know, if he's doing it, I can do it. You know, I think that's the mentality a lot about acting because there's no innate physical ability that people can see. Like, a painter, if you gave me a canvas and I painted something, you would be able to tell that I don't know what the hell I'm doing. Right? But with acting, it's kind of, you know, you watch people and you go, I can do that.

[00:11:24] And you don't see the obstacles that come with it as well. There are no obstacles that you can physically see. So for like a painter, you have to go out and buy a canvas and buy paint and do all these. These are physical things that people can see you have to do before you can start painting. Yep. But with acting, people don't really see that. Right? Especially now with social media, a lot of people think they could just turn on their phone and start acting, which they can. They can. But to be in the movie business and the TV business, that's a whole other ballgame.

[00:11:54] What's the hardest part about being an actor? Your patience. You have to have a lot of patience. And I'm talking years of patience. For one, you know, you're talking to an actor who went to theater. Like I trained in theater, you know, for four years. I graduated with a BFA. Not everybody does that and not everybody has to do that.

[00:12:13] But I would assume even actors who don't go to theater school or don't train classically like I did are probably constantly doing, you know, acting classes before they kind of kick off their professional career. Sometimes not. But sometimes. Sometimes. Or they know someone big in the industry. Maybe their father is an actor or their cousin is a director. And they can kind of offer them some guidance as to how to get started.

[00:12:39] But for most immigrant kids like me, we don't know anybody in the industry. So you're kind of taking pieces from everybody, your friends, your colleagues, your teachers, and going, okay, this is how I do it. And, you know, so for me, when I was in theater school, I learned really early on like, okay, I've got to get an O-1 visa so that I can move to Los Angeles.

[00:13:04] I'm going to, again, this goes back to what we're talking about, very analytical and very like I planned it all out. It was like I'm going to get a restaurant job as soon as I graduate. Well, I'm going to get a restaurant job before I graduate for a year because I've got to start off as a busboy. And then by the time I graduate, I need to be a server so I can make enough money to save up. And then I did that for three years and saved up enough money. And while I was doing that, I got my O-1 visa. And there's a whole slew of things you have to do to get your O-1 visa.

[00:13:31] And then I moved to L.A. with $15,000 in my pocket. And that's what I went off of. But to get to L.A. with $15,000 took me like seven years of planning because I started planning it when I first like entered theater school. And then, you know, it took me time to graduate theater school and get a restaurant job and save up enough money and get my O-1 visa and do all these things. But not everybody does it that way.

[00:13:58] I had friends who were like, I'm just going to go to L.A. without a manager, without a visa. Which is wild to think about. Yeah, without anything. And they just went and tried to figure it out, you know. And I guess some of them were successful and some of them were not. What's the biggest piece of advice a more seasoned actor has given you about the industry? Will Smith always told me just to be kind to people, to be generous and to do the work.

[00:14:27] And he was very much that way. That's kind of stuck with me, I guess. Yes, I think I was already doing a lot of that. But to hear it, you know, coming from him. What does do the work mean? Show up every day. You know, do the work means a lot of things for actors. A lot of people think doing the work for actors just means like show up with your lines memorized and act. But it's also about how you act on set, right?

[00:14:52] When you're the lead of something, when you're the lead of a show, you act very differently than if you're a guest star for a week. At least I do. When I'm the lead of a show, I'm leading the ship, you know, behind the camera. So I've got to lead by example. I've got to show up. I've got to be punctual. I've got to be, you know, kind to everybody, generous to everybody. You have to have your lines in the sand as well because if you've got to protect your own sanity and your own work.

[00:15:22] And you've got to just lead by example. Yes, sir. No, ma'am. Stuff like that, you know. Because the industry is not like that. You get people who aren't like that, but that's the way I want to be. So I have to lead by example. And most of the time when you do lead by example and you're one of the leads and there's someone who's a supporting character or whatever and they act crazy, they kind of get embarrassed of themselves. Because if the leads aren't acting like that, you shouldn't be acting like that.

[00:15:51] You know, and so, but it's different. I've been on sets where I'm a guest star and I just go in and I'm not asserting myself as much because I'm just a guest on their set. I'm a guest on the show, you know, so I'm not asserting myself. I still have a way that I want to act, but, you know, it's not my responsibility. Whereas on Aladdin, I felt like I was responsible, you know, and that's why sometimes when you approach it that way and you go,

[00:16:20] I'm responsible for this ship and then the behind the scenes don't see you in the same way, that's when it can be a mindfuck a little bit. But I'm thinking about the ego that must come with being an actor, especially when you achieve a measure of success. It's easy for that ego to take over. And I've heard plenty of stories. I've had actors, like I said, on the podcast talk about their experiences with their own ego,

[00:16:50] as well as the ego of their castmates or their director and all that stuff. And there's a notion or at least a perception that on set, egos run wild. People yell at each other. It's my way or the highway type of thing. How do you balance your ego, especially when you achieve success to go, I have to stay humble in order to remain kind? Because then once the ego takes over, especially as a man, it's easy to just sort of get lost in it. Well, I will say this.

[00:17:18] I think egos for different people manifest in different ways. So I'll tell you how my ego manifested after Aladdin. It certainly was not in the way you're describing. First of all, I've been very lucky that most of the sets I've worked on, we haven't really had egomaniacs. I haven't experienced it. I've been very lucky in that way. I think God honestly has protected me a lot from that. Will was incredible to work with on set. His ego never manifested in the way that you're describing at all.

[00:17:48] And most of my other projects, you know, in the same way. At least in the projects that I've worked on, you know, after I found success. Because on the projects I worked with before you find success, you don't really get to see people's egos because you play such a small part that you don't really see it. But on the projects where, you know, I'm a lead, you know, I'm a producer, whatever it is, because I've been lucky enough that I haven't really had to deal with any egomaniacs.

[00:18:18] But my ego after Aladdin manifested in a different way. It was never, I'm the shit, this is my show. You know, it was never that. Though for a lot of people, I get what you're saying. It manifests that way. My ego manifested in behind closed doors in the sense that after Aladdin made a billion dollars, and because I felt so responsible for the success or failure of the project,

[00:18:48] like I do with any project I work on, right? Even when it does fail, I feel responsible for that. When I didn't get what I wanted out of it, that was my ego manifesting itself of like, hey, what happened? You deserve this. You guys, you know, you did well. The movie did well. You did a good job. You're the title character. What happened? And then my ego started kind of kicking me in the butt of going,

[00:19:17] well, you must not be that good then. You must be missing something. You're not really a star, are you? Right? And it started kind of talking to me in that way because of my, you know, childhood trauma, childhood, you know, growing up as a child. Everybody's different. So my ego did not manifest its way in that kind of bashful, loud kind of way. It was more internal and it was more destructive for me internally.

[00:19:46] And it started eating away at my joy, at my gratitude. So that's how my ego manifested itself. If I was a fly on the wall watching you in those moments, what would I have seen? I think someone that's just really down on their luck. Someone who lost his confidence. Someone who I think had just lost the joy in what they did.

[00:20:14] Because when I graduated theater school, I always told myself I never wanted to be famous or I didn't even necessarily want to work in film and TV. I wanted to be a theater actor. I wanted to get a company position at the Shaw Festival or the Stratford Festival. That's what I wanted when I was in theater school. You know, that was my dream. I was like, if I can just get a roster spot at the Shaw Festival or Stratford Festival and get to do this for the rest of my life and make a decent living doing this, I'm happy. That's what I wanted.

[00:20:42] The reason I went into film and TV is because, A, I thought there was much more opportunity in film and television. In Toronto and theater, there's a few players, right? Stratford, Shaw, Soul Pepper, the factory theater, but I don't think they have company slots. And so I thought, you know, the opportunity really is in L.A. and it's really in Hollywood.

[00:21:09] But my goal was never to book a film like Aladdin. I had so much joy before I moved to Hollywood and found success. And so, again, my ego after the success of Aladdin, that's how it manifested itself. It actually started kind of bringing me down. It wasn't this – and I think everybody's ego brings them down. But for some people, their ego brings them down in the sense that they get bashful. They get cocky.

[00:21:39] People start to not like them. They start to burn bridges. And that's kind of their downturn. For me, it was internal. It was completely internal. So, you know, that's how it manifested for me. Have you ever reconciled all of that? Like have you ever stopped and – I imagine as an analytical person, you've thought through every possible scenario as to what may have happened or why it happened or played out the way it did.

[00:22:03] Have you ever come to a conclusion that has allowed you to put your head on a pillow at night and sleep peacefully and go, that's why? Yeah, yeah. It took me years. First of all, I did therapy. You know, that's why I'm able to talk about my childhood trauma and these demons that you have as a child and manifesting for people in different ways. Right? I was able to connect what I was feeling with my experiences as a child, you know, because I did therapy. And also, I went to UFT for neuroscience. So, like we took psychology.

[00:22:33] We studied these things. So, I was able to connect them fairly quickly with the help of a therapist. But it still took me years, you know, especially because, you know, people forget but Aladdin came out in May of 2019 and then our industry shut down like six months later. Yeah. And so, it was this weird place where, yes, I wasn't seeing the momentum I wanted to see. But then it kind of stopped for everybody. And then it was like, oh my gosh. Like this is, I'm done. My momentum is killed. So, I had a lot of time to reflect.

[00:23:03] But it took me a few years. And I think I've spoken about this on my podcast as well. But for me, it was about rediscovering gratitude and joy. You know, I had lost gratitude in that process. You know, I was super grateful when I booked Aladdin, of course, and kicked off my professional career. You know, I don't want to say kicked off, but like kicked it into another gear. Sure.

[00:23:33] I mean, as far as big title roles go, like live action, Disney film, like that's the one. That's the one. Yeah. Especially for people that look like us, that's the one. I mean, you're not really going to. Those are few and far in between. Yeah. Yeah. So, after that, I lost gratitude. I lost my joy. So, it was about refinding those things. And then I, you know, I think the conclusion I've come to now is this is a lifelong pursuit. And nobody's journey is the same.

[00:24:02] No one person's journey is the same. And I, whenever I get down on my luck, I just like to look at people that like Christoph Waltz, Pedro Pascal, Bryan Cranston. These are all actors who, for the most part, didn't hit their prime, if you will. And I'm not talking about their talent, because they might have hit their prime talent years before anyone saw it. But they hit their quote unquote prime, you know, in their 40s and 50s.

[00:24:31] And before that, not a lot of people knew who they were, what they were doing, or what they were up to. And, you know, it's just a different journey for everybody. So, that's what I like to think about now when I get down on myself. How much of this industry, how much of the acting industry is luck versus hard work? Could you be an incredibly talented actor who works incredibly hard and still not make it? Yes, if you quit. That's what I believe.

[00:24:59] I believe if you're incredibly talented and you do it long enough, everybody will get their chance. Because that's what I believe. And that's why I point to guys like Christoph Waltz and Bryan Cranston and these guys. Don't get me wrong. Those guys were working in their respective places. You know, Christoph Waltz in Austria and Germany, he was working. Bryan Cranston was working in Hollywood. So, it's not like they weren't working.

[00:25:24] But they kind of had to do it just long enough to get the right opportunity for the whole world to see them. You know, I mean, Christoph Waltz went on to win two Oscars back to back after that. It's insane. He'd been acting for so long and, you know, he books Inglourious Bastards and then wins two Oscars basically back to back. Great film. Yeah, great film. I watched it the other day on the plane. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Great film. Oh, yeah. Great film. Great performances. And same with Bryan Cranston.

[00:25:52] You know, I don't think he had won any awards or even been nominated. And Breaking Bad comes along and he's like sweeping, you know, the awards every year. Well, you mentioned Pedro Pascal. I mean, outside of Game of Thrones prior to that, I don't think anybody had really heard of him. Yeah. I mean, look, I like... You see photos of like all the different movies he's been in. You're like, oh, I didn't even realize he was in it. Yeah. Correct. Correct. So, yeah, I would say Game of Thrones is kind of what kicked him into, again, kicked him into another gear. Yeah.

[00:26:21] So, yeah, it's different for everybody. But I think that if you're a talented actor and you're hardworking and you don't give up, you will succeed. You will get a chance eventually. But then not giving up is hard because it could take 20 years. Right? This is not like something that is going to take a couple of years. It could take 20 years. It could take 25 years. And that's the patience that you're talking about. Yeah. It's a long-term patience. And that's why I'm saying most people aren't built for that. Have you ever thought about quitting acting? Oh, yeah. Lots.

[00:26:51] Lots of times. Lots of times. During the pandemic, I researched how to get my law degree. I don't want to say I was close to doing it, but I was entertaining it. I was like, I can get my law degree. I was like, yeah, maybe it would help me negotiate my own contracts or something in the future. I was trying to justify it for myself, you know? Like, no, you're not going to quit acting, but maybe it'll help you, you know, with your contracts. That was during a time where I was, you know, trying to rediscover that joy, that gratitude.

[00:27:19] And even till now, you know, I find myself doing things and I'm like, why am I spending time on this? I should be spending time on, like, working on my craft. It's hard as an actor to stay locked in 24-7 all the time, you know? And so, you know, you get distracted by life when you're not working. You're like, let me work on this. Let me, you know, work on the house, do stuff around the house.

[00:27:43] And of course, some of that stuff you have to do, especially after you get married and you start, you know, having a family and stuff. You're more than just an actor. And that's gotten harder as I've gotten older. When I was younger, I could focus just on acting. And it was like, you know, that was all I could focus on. As you get older, you realize there's more to life than just my career. You know, I have to be a husband. I have to be a son. I have to be a brother as well.

[00:28:11] You know, I do catch myself in moments going, I should be working a little bit harder. I should be working more on my craft. Walk me through that conversation that you had with your parents when you decided to pursue acting full-time. Oh, man. Because you were hiding it, you said. Yeah. And then you have to go and tell them, mom, dad, listen, I will be pursuing this. Like, no ifs, ands, or buts. You know, I tried having the conversation with them very early on, even before I went to UFT for neuroscience.

[00:28:41] And there was just no conversation to be had. It was kind of just, they shut it down right away. Right. They kind of made me feel stupid for even bringing it up. So I realized, I think, in that moment that if I was going to do this, there was no conversation to be had. I just had to decide to do it. And so, in that sense, there was no conversation. It was kind of like, I made up my mind.

[00:29:07] I decided that if I got into theater school as one of the 30 kids that they pick, and our class, we start off with 30 kids. You know, they only pick 30 people. It's hard to get in. And so I told myself, if I get in, there is no conversation. I'm just going to tell them this is what I'm going to do. And they're going to be upset. And it is what it is. I'm paying for, you know, I'm paying for myself to put myself through school. They're not even paying for it. And this is what I want to do. And I just wasted money doing one year of neuroscience. If I do end up pursuing this, so screw it.

[00:29:38] Like, well, I'm putting myself into debt for something I don't want to do. So when I got in, I told them they were obviously, you know, I told them that I wasn't going to continue in the program. And I was going to go to Ryerson starting next year. And that was really it. I mean, they were upset by it. There was a lot of, they were very hurt by it for sure. A couple of weeks, a month after I told them, we went to a family friend's house.

[00:30:02] They kind of humiliated me in front of these family friends that we were spending time with. And I put on my shoes. I started crying. You know, I was holding back tears. I put on my shoes and I ran out of the house and ran as fast as I could. And I ran away from home. I called one of my friends to pick me up. He dropped me off at another friend's house. And that really spooked them because I had never done anything like that before. So I think that kind of made them realize, like, we could lose our son over this.

[00:30:31] And I think, I hate to say this as a son, but I think I kind of made them see it the right way in that way. You know, that's not right for everybody. But for my parents, it was just the right way to do it. I think they just kind of got it after that. They understood that I was going to die on this hill. What was the conversation like when you booked Aladdin? Oh, it was great. Was that the, like, I told you so moment? You know, I never really had a I told you so moment.

[00:31:01] And I honestly can't because they still worry about me. And I still, you know, I speak to my parents quite a bit. And they still worry about me. And it is. It's still worrying. You know, there's some months where you're like, how am I going to get by this month? You know? So there's no I told you so moment. And I'm glad I never, you know, I never did that. Because you get humbled in this industry, man. I've been doing this, you know, my first professional credit ever was in 2011. So I've been doing this 15 years now.

[00:31:29] And this industry has a way of constantly humbling you. So yeah, there's no I told you so moment. I was actually in Toronto working on a film when I found out I booked Aladdin when I got the call. And so I was staying with them to, you know, to save some money. I was staying with them. I got hired as a local Toronto actor, even though I had moved to L.A. already. But I got hired as a local Toronto actor when I got the call.

[00:31:56] And it was actually a film with Margaret Qualley and Nick Robinson and Brian Cox, who all have went on to do incredible things. And I came home and I told them I booked Aladdin. And they were just, yeah, I mean, they were ecstatic. How did you feel when you got that call? What was the call like? Like, what do they say to you in that instance? Well, your agents call you, you know, your representatives call you. Sometimes the director will call you. I've had friends who the director will call them personally.

[00:32:22] But in this case, my agents called me and, you know, told me I booked it. And they tried screwing around with me at first. You know, they were like, hey, we've got some good news and bad news. I was like, okay. They're like, well, the bad news is you're not going to be going to London again. Because I had went to London twice to screen test. They're like, you're not going to be going to London again. But the good news is it's because you booked the job. So they were trying to screw around with me a little bit.

[00:32:51] But yeah, I mean, obviously I was ecstatic. And, you know, anyone that worked with me on that film kind of knows that I just got straight to work. I didn't have much time. They were like, we start in six weeks. And I was like, I've got to learn the choreography. I've got to, you know, improve on my singing. I've got to, you know, memorize the script. There's so much stuff you have to do on a film like that. I've got to learn, you know, start on the stunt work, all that kind of stuff. In a way, I took it too seriously.

[00:33:18] I could tell Guy, now looking back on it, he was kind of like, this kid's taking this way too seriously. You know, but it's easy when you're a vet in the industry and you're doing it like, you know, 30 years to kind of be like, all right, you know, take it easy, kid. Yeah, I imagine for you, it was like, this is my shot. I got to like put everything into it. Yeah, that was exactly it, you know, and I had, it was kind of perfect because I had just gotten out of a long term relationship. And so I was kind of just, I had nobody to answer to except myself.

[00:33:47] And I hold myself at a very high level. So I was like, all right, this is what we've got to do. So I would sit down with the second AD during pre-production and I would just be like stack my days. Like I want to do dance choreography, vocal lessons. I remember having to learn like camel riding lessons, scuba diving lessons so I could do the underwater scene myself. I just kind of just filled my time. I learned how to play the oud and I didn't even end up doing it in the movie.

[00:34:16] The day of, a guy was like, you know what? Aladdin's not going to do that. We're going to get Jasmine to play the oud. I was like, cool. I just spent four weeks learning how to, you know, learning a couple of strings. It's fine. It's all good. And you've mentioned Will Smith a few times. To book a film like that, first and foremost, is an incredible achievement. And then to do that alongside Will Smith, what was that like? Yeah, it was insane. I mean, like everybody, I grew up watching Will.

[00:34:45] I grew up idolizing him to a certain point. I don't want to use the word idolizing, but, you know, I grew up appreciating his work and looking up to him, you know, as one of the best careers in Hollywood. I mean, I think he's still to this day, he's probably had one of the best careers to ever exist. I mean, him and DiCaprio, I think. Him, DiCaprio, Tom Cruise, as careers go, probably some of the best careers ever in the history of cinema.

[00:35:14] Working with the best directors on the best content with the most success you can ask for. So, you know, I knew that going into it. And thankfully, he didn't disappoint. You know, he was generous. He was kind. When I say he didn't disappoint, like he didn't disappoint. And he does that intentionally. You know, he doesn't want to let people down. And so, you know, yeah, he didn't disappoint in the slightest. He was just amazing to work with. A complete professional.

[00:35:43] Yeah, I only have good things to say about Will. I want to ask you one more question here. Because time flies when you're having fun. Knowing everything you know today. All the experiences, all the ups, the downs, the therapy sessions, the failures, the rejections, the reflections. If you can go back in time and talk to that younger version of you. The one that was just stepping into that school. With wide-eyed aspirations of who he was going to become.

[00:36:11] What piece of advice would you give him? What would you say to him that he needed to hear that maybe nobody was telling him? I would probably tell him it's going to be more difficult than you can ever imagine. And there will be no ultimate point of success. You know, I think that's the thing that people, or at least for me, my personal experience with acting. You want to become a doctor or a lawyer.

[00:36:37] Your first point of success is like graduating and getting your license and being like, I've done it. I'm a doctor now. I'm a lawyer now. There's no mark at which point that happens in entertainment or in the profession of being an actor. There's no point where you'll go, I've got my certificate now. I'm an actor. It's like you're kind of always an actor and never an actor.

[00:37:03] It's kind of like, you know, there's no point where you're like, I'm a registered nurse. I'm a registered doctor. There's none of that. So there's no end game and there's no ultimate point of success. And there's no clear path on how you're going to do it. Being an artist comes from within. And it only comes from within.

[00:37:26] And so if you are committed to a lifelong pursuit of your own artistry, then you're an artist. And if you're not, then you're not. You know what I mean? It kind of sounds wish-washy, but the whole industry kind of is. So that's the ultimate advice I would give him. Because when I was graduating, again, I had a plan. Like, I'm going to do this and then this is going to happen. And then I'll do this and then I'll move to LA. And it's like, I never thought after that.

[00:37:57] And then when I booked Aladdin, I was like, this is it. I did it. This is great. I finished the game. And little did I know the game was just beginning. You know? So that's kind of the piece of advice that I think I would give myself. Tell me about the film. You said you're working on a new film or you have a new film coming out. Tell me about it. Yeah, Daniel and the Fiery Furnace comes out September 18th in Canada and the U.S.

[00:38:26] and some markets worldwide as well. It's a biblical story. You know, as people are aware of, biblical stories are kind of having a moment right now. And when I was growing up, I never thought we would get to this point where biblical films and biblical stories were being made at this scale on this level. You know, Passion of the Christ got made, but then nothing really— Yeah, there hasn't really been much since that. Yeah, you know, a few Moses stories, I guess, and Noah's Ark or something.

[00:38:55] But now there's a constant slew of biblical stories being made. I think that's largely due to Angel Studios and Dallas Jenkins and the studios, some studios jumping on board like Amazon. They've now jumped on board in a big way. They see that there's an audience for it. And so I never really thought we'd get to this point, but we have. And so I wanted to do a biblical retelling.

[00:39:25] And I got close to a couple of things again. You know, that was actually one of—I won't name the series, but one of these big Christian series was also another series that I got really close to. And then I booked Daniel, which was great. And I was like, you know, that's God's will. This is the one I was meant to—this is the one I was meant to do. Yeah, it's a great epic Bible film, a biblical story about Daniel and the genesis of Daniel.

[00:39:54] A lot of people know Daniel for Daniel in the lion's den, which happens much later in his life. Daniel, historically speaking, served under four different kings. And this is the story of his servitude under the first king, King Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, which a lot of historians and scholars say was one of the greatest kingdoms in the history of the world. And so when Daniel was exiled out of Judah, Israel,

[00:40:23] he was exiled along with his brothers and sisters in faith in Israel to Babylon. And this is that story of what happened when they were first exiled into Babylon. So it's— Yeah. September 18th? September 18th is going to be a great, you know, again, biblical epic about Daniel and the king. Amazing. Brother, thank you so much for coming by. Yeah, of course, man. Thanks for having me. This was a great conversation. Thank you. Thank you very much.

[00:40:53] I wish you the best of luck and success in all that you're doing. I feel like—it's interesting. I feel like if we had this conversation maybe a few years ago, I would have gotten a different perspective. The sense I get from you right now is a man who has done his share of reflection and has come to terms and come to peace with the way things played out and said, it happened the way it happened. And I have two paths in front of me, one where I bury myself in a hole or one where I come out of it

[00:41:21] and I try to make something from the rest of my life. And I feel like you've taken that latter path. So I'm happy to see it and I commend you and all that you're doing, man. Thank you. Yeah. I could have chosen to sit in bitterness and resentment, which I did for a bit. Or you realize that that's really not going to get you anywhere and people don't really care. People also don't have pity on people who have found success.

[00:41:45] Even if the rest of their life is difficult or goes to shit, people don't really have pity on people who have done and seen great success. And nor should they. Because at the end of the day, your life is really about what you make of it. No one else is going to do that for you. So thank you. I appreciate that. I'll take that compliment for sure.

[00:42:12] And I'd love to have you back in the studio as things progress here. Because I want to keep hearing more about this story. But thank you so much for coming through, man. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Thank you so much, everybody. Thank you very much, everybody.