Tik Tok Sensation On Balancing Virality & Pursuing Music Career: Lubalin | Ep.120 - Gent's Talk

[00:00:00] Sometimes it helps to be like, you know what, fuck it, I quit.

[00:00:02] I just kind of like mentally imagine what it would be like to stop everything.

[00:00:06] And you start the TikToks and you see virality.

[00:00:09] I think in the first hour it had hit 200,000 views and by the end of the day it was in a million views and we're like, what is going on?

[00:00:16] Lubalin is a Canadian musician, producer, and viral TikTok star known for blending alternative R&B with comedic internet parodies, amassing millions of followers through his internet drama series.

[00:00:28] So you've put a pause on...

[00:00:30] There's a pause on it.

[00:00:31] Okay.

[00:00:31] Number priming is a bitch.

[00:00:33] Bigger number, much bigger number, like I get it.

[00:00:36] But when you're promoting a song sometimes the numbers are lower.

[00:00:41] There's something that I'm chasing that makes me keep picking the hard way.

[00:00:45] I need some kind of insane, impossible thing always.

[00:00:50] So what are you not doing right now that you want to be doing?

[00:00:54] Oh my God.

[00:00:57] I am...

[00:01:20] So the podcast is, has been an incredible journey where my passion can meet my utility finally.

[00:01:25] And that's been probably one of the best feelings because I come into the studio, I sit down, I have a conversation with an incredible gent like yourself and get to learn about you and really just talk.

[00:01:36] And so on that note, Lubalin or Luba as you, you go by sometimes.

[00:01:42] Welcome to Jen's talk.

[00:01:43] Thanks so much for having me.

[00:01:44] I'm really excited to have this conversation.

[00:01:46] I want to know more about you because my fiancee loves your TikTok videos.

[00:01:56] Thanks.

[00:01:57] I remember her just showing them to me and going, look at this guy who's just making these videos, but they're so funny and you can't turn away.

[00:02:06] And I'm like, okay, let's see this.

[00:02:07] And I would watch them and I would just start laughing.

[00:02:10] But you're here because you're also now into the music space, which is really cool.

[00:02:16] Like it speaks to this concept of we're multidimensional.

[00:02:20] We have a lot of different creative outlets.

[00:02:22] But for those who don't really know who you are outside of what they've seen publicly, who are you?

[00:02:32] It's funny.

[00:02:33] I have a song.

[00:02:33] This chorus is who am I?

[00:02:35] Don't know.

[00:02:36] It's great.

[00:02:37] It's a great question.

[00:02:38] I'm always asking myself.

[00:02:42] I just.

[00:02:45] Have different things that I find exciting.

[00:02:50] I find magic and a lot of different things.

[00:02:53] And I think I just want to share what I see with people.

[00:02:58] And I think those TikToks were just like an extension of that as well.

[00:03:03] It was just like, I think this is funny.

[00:03:05] And let me show you how I read it sort of in my mind, like how it feels to me.

[00:03:11] And and I think that's a little bit what I do in everything.

[00:03:13] I find things that I like and and I try to frame them.

[00:03:19] I try to contextualize them.

[00:03:20] I try to.

[00:03:21] It's a bit of curation.

[00:03:23] It's a bit of creativity.

[00:03:24] It's it's.

[00:03:25] But also, I just like to sit and just explore, you know, and like for myself and then kind

[00:03:31] of go like, is this a thing, you know, and and share that with the world.

[00:03:34] Yeah.

[00:03:35] What were you doing before you started?

[00:03:36] So you're just for context for people who don't know you, your TikToks completely blew

[00:03:42] up during the pandemic, like went super viral.

[00:03:47] Prior to that, what were you doing?

[00:03:49] So I was making music as Lublin.

[00:03:53] So you're already a musician.

[00:03:54] I was already a musician.

[00:03:55] Yeah.

[00:03:55] For my whole life, I've been making music.

[00:03:59] So it is kind of funny because those TikToks, you know, I was just like, you know, I'm

[00:04:04] going to take a break.

[00:04:05] I'm going to make some TikToks.

[00:04:06] This TikTok thing seems to be, you know, popping off.

[00:04:09] And so messed around with some different covers and stuff and then came up with that that idea

[00:04:14] after watching somebody like turn the ingredients on a soup can into a song.

[00:04:19] I was like, yeah, OK, that's a cool idea.

[00:04:21] And I thought I'd get, you know, a couple hundred thousand views, hopefully, and maybe

[00:04:25] it would help build my audience a little.

[00:04:28] But then it was so successful that it became me, you know.

[00:04:33] And so a lot of people see me as the guy who made TikToks, who is now making music or whatever.

[00:04:39] But like really, it was a there's a little pit stop on the way.

[00:04:44] And it became kind of snowballed into the center of my career.

[00:04:47] Well, it's interesting because if I literally just introduced you that way.

[00:04:51] Yeah.

[00:04:52] Because that's how I first came across you.

[00:04:54] Totally.

[00:04:55] And that's like that makes sense, right?

[00:04:56] Like that's how we understand the world that we we this is you need a simple story to grab

[00:05:04] onto.

[00:05:04] And I'm blessed to have one.

[00:05:05] Right.

[00:05:06] Like that's what gets me in the door in a lot of places.

[00:05:08] Like, oh, it's the guy you know him from this.

[00:05:10] And then I can start, you know, talking and sharing other stuff, which is why it's great

[00:05:14] to be here, too, and have these kind of longer form conversations and look at all the

[00:05:17] other stuff I could do.

[00:05:18] Go beyond the top line, you know, because to be honest, like what that is, I think I'm like

[00:05:23] realizing more and more is just another facet of the way that I do everything.

[00:05:27] Actually.

[00:05:28] So was the music career going anywhere before the TikToks?

[00:05:33] It was a lot harder.

[00:05:35] Yeah.

[00:05:35] I had I must have had maybe 600 Instagram followers.

[00:05:39] Yeah.

[00:05:39] It was like a lot of work.

[00:05:41] Yeah.

[00:05:41] It had been, I think, a year or two since I had started making music as Lubalin.

[00:05:46] Mm hmm.

[00:05:48] So was still.

[00:05:49] Yeah.

[00:05:49] I mean, it's, you know, it's hard.

[00:05:51] And but since then, you know, I've also grown so much as an artist.

[00:05:56] The new project is, you know, I've been elevated by all the different people that I've worked

[00:06:01] with since then.

[00:06:03] So.

[00:06:04] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:06:05] It's funny.

[00:06:05] It's like.

[00:06:07] I just always want to be growing, like I always want to be leveling up.

[00:06:12] So.

[00:06:13] Yeah, it's funny to look back and think about it is a different artist almost, you know,

[00:06:17] it's a different persona.

[00:06:19] Yeah.

[00:06:19] Is the so OK, you you're doing the music career wasn't really producing the results you had

[00:06:27] hoped for.

[00:06:28] And then you start to take talks and you see virality.

[00:06:31] Like when we talk about creators going viral, you're an example of that.

[00:06:36] Mm hmm.

[00:06:37] And you said to quote you, you kind of took a pit stop.

[00:06:41] In this area.

[00:06:42] Yeah.

[00:06:43] Was there ever a point where you thought maybe I'm just not going to repursue the music

[00:06:46] career?

[00:06:47] Was that always something you were going to do no matter what?

[00:06:50] I think.

[00:06:52] That for me.

[00:06:54] It was never an option, but I could.

[00:06:59] I could feel this kind of like even if no one really said it, although I'm sure in the

[00:07:04] comments people said it, but but like you feel the kind of like society kind of, hey, you

[00:07:10] found a thing that works and that's really hard to find and you found it like are you

[00:07:16] not going to keep pushing that button like over and over until nothing comes.

[00:07:19] Like, you know what I mean?

[00:07:20] Like and I try to level that.

[00:07:22] Exhaust it as much as possible.

[00:07:23] You know, squeeze that thing.

[00:07:24] Right.

[00:07:25] And and I think we could have.

[00:07:28] And.

[00:07:29] And I say we because my partner helped film the videos and, you know, she's half of the

[00:07:32] she's the funny one, you know, I always say.

[00:07:35] We could have kept squeezing that.

[00:07:37] But like it.

[00:07:40] It was really fun.

[00:07:41] It was fun every time.

[00:07:43] And I knew if we started feeling like it was a burden, like we had to do it, like every

[00:07:49] single one we did felt like a bonus.

[00:07:51] It was like, yeah, let's do another one.

[00:07:53] It was also really hard to find the content.

[00:07:55] You know, it's like it's not anything that will work.

[00:07:58] It has to be short.

[00:07:59] It has to be really funny in a way that I like.

[00:08:02] Like, but it also has to be light, you know, like we could have done politics, but I never

[00:08:05] touched that because I felt like there's enough of that.

[00:08:08] And and we had such a nice vibe in the comment sections.

[00:08:12] I wanted to preserve that.

[00:08:13] I wanted it to be, you know, there's not to say there's anything wrong with that.

[00:08:17] I love taking in that kind of content and hearing about that.

[00:08:20] But I felt like let's make something that has nothing to do with that, you know.

[00:08:24] But yeah, so it was like it was getting harder to find content, too.

[00:08:27] And it was just kind of like and then, you know, it's like the brand deals are coming

[00:08:30] in, but then sometimes, you know, not to get too deep into it, but sometimes certain

[00:08:35] companies, you're like, do I want to like lend my voice to this?

[00:08:40] And then at some point it was just like, you know, I have a vision for these other

[00:08:43] things and that's what I wanted to do this whole time.

[00:08:45] And I haven't that never went away, you know.

[00:08:48] So for now, we're back on the music.

[00:08:50] And, you know, it's also like, again, in that sense of like people understand you

[00:08:56] through a story.

[00:08:58] And now it's like, well, if we keep doing both in parallel, we might have a hard time

[00:09:02] with this new story, which is like Lublin's got an album coming out.

[00:09:05] Lublin's got these songs, you know, it's got a show and all these things.

[00:09:08] So so it's like it's not that we'll never do it again.

[00:09:14] So you've put a pause on it.

[00:09:16] There's a pause.

[00:09:17] OK.

[00:09:17] Yeah.

[00:09:18] And how is the feedback from the community you've cultivated?

[00:09:23] I would say overwhelmingly positive.

[00:09:26] Oh, good.

[00:09:27] There are absolutely like the audience isn't as big, of course.

[00:09:31] Right.

[00:09:31] Because what we did with the dramas was like kind of universal almost like inadvertently,

[00:09:37] like we made something that almost everyone could enjoy, I think.

[00:09:41] Um, and so obviously, like that doesn't necessarily Venn diagram 100% with my music.

[00:09:47] So we're transferring, you know, we're getting some of the people over and then also gaining

[00:09:52] new fans who like find the music and then go, oh, you made these other things.

[00:09:56] That's crazy.

[00:09:57] Um, do you struggle with the you mentioned the results are not the same.

[00:10:02] Do you struggle seeing?

[00:10:04] I mean, there's a lot of a high, there's a high that comes with hitting that kind of virality.

[00:10:08] Oh, yeah.

[00:10:09] And then to come down from that a little bit, because you're not only is are the videos

[00:10:14] performing differently, but it's a whole new thing.

[00:10:18] I mean, a new thing relatively.

[00:10:20] You've done it prior, but like a lot of people in that scenario go, it's one thing to even

[00:10:26] take the leap into trying something new.

[00:10:28] It's another when you're now looking at the results and going, it's not the same.

[00:10:31] How do you balance that?

[00:10:32] Yeah, it is.

[00:10:34] Definitely not always easy.

[00:10:36] Um, uh, number priming is, can we swear on this podcast?

[00:10:41] Absolutely.

[00:10:41] Number priming is a bitch.

[00:10:44] And when you have videos that, you know, are going 10, 20, 40 million views, um, you get

[00:10:51] like 200,000 views and you're like, damn, we flopped.

[00:10:54] It's like, okay, reality check.

[00:10:57] Right.

[00:10:57] Um, I think we're, we're kind of in the process now also of like re

[00:11:03] assessing what is success, you know, cause numbers are, are easy to understand.

[00:11:09] Bigger number, much bigger number.

[00:11:11] Like I get it.

[00:11:12] That's better.

[00:11:12] Um, but when you're, you know, promoting a song, um, through the same channel, uh, like short

[00:11:22] form, the way short form works, right.

[00:11:24] It is no one gives a shit who made the video.

[00:11:26] They just want to be entertained.

[00:11:28] That's how the algorithm works.

[00:11:29] It's all about retention and it's about entertainment, which means you really can't like put a secondary

[00:11:34] message in your video.

[00:11:36] You can't like, as soon as you start talking about something else, people are gone.

[00:11:40] And so the dramas work well because there is no other purpose to them.

[00:11:44] They are purely like for their own purpose.

[00:11:47] Then when you try to like, go like, go to my Spotify.

[00:11:51] No, forget it.

[00:11:52] You know?

[00:11:52] So then you have to kind of think of like, okay, well, what we want is not necessarily a piece

[00:11:57] that's going to reach the most people because doing that is probably going to be a piece

[00:12:01] that serves itself as opposed to the music.

[00:12:04] So now it's like, okay, well, how do we like build brand and, and, and bring creativity?

[00:12:09] Like I'm trying to not just do like promo content, but like, it's like treat it like an art form

[00:12:14] as well and kind of go the extra mile to like make it interesting, but also be, yeah, an extension

[00:12:20] of, of Lublin and my, my art.

[00:12:23] Um, and so, so we're accepting that like sometimes the numbers are lower.

[00:12:27] But then when you look at the comments, they're not commenting about the joke from the video.

[00:12:30] They're commenting about the music and how much they love it and how much it means to them.

[00:12:34] And that's what I mean when I say like overwhelming, overwhelmingly positives, like a lot of like

[00:12:40] people just connecting to the music and the like handful of comments that are like, please make

[00:12:45] another drama.

[00:12:46] It's like, I don't mind, you know, I get it.

[00:12:48] I love, I love them too.

[00:12:49] You know, like I would never take anything away from those videos.

[00:12:52] So, um, but yeah.

[00:12:55] You did an interview and forgive me because I can't recall the name of the, the outlet or

[00:13:01] publication that you did the interview with, but you talked about the challenge of balancing

[00:13:08] virality when it's so quick.

[00:13:10] Mm hmm.

[00:13:11] So your accounts, you said, you know, 600 on Instagram to suddenly seeing 40 million viewed

[00:13:17] videos and whatnot.

[00:13:19] And the, the number of follower growth that came with it.

[00:13:22] And suddenly there's a demand for more when you're servicing that many people.

[00:13:29] There's just like a constant, how you supply more and more and more.

[00:13:33] Mm hmm.

[00:13:34] That can be a very exhausting place to, to be in.

[00:13:37] Oh yeah.

[00:13:38] How did you balance your mental wellbeing?

[00:13:42] Cause you talked about that being the challenge.

[00:13:45] Um, yeah, there's definitely a kind of a treadmill effect.

[00:13:51] Um, and I think that we didn't always succeed at balancing it.

[00:13:56] I think it was a, it was a journey.

[00:13:58] It still is a journey, honestly.

[00:14:00] Um, my partner and I, we work, you know, around the clock.

[00:14:06] We work like what's a weekend.

[00:14:07] We don't, you know, if, if, if, if it wasn't for the meetings and all this stuff, I wouldn't

[00:14:11] know what day of the week it is.

[00:14:12] It doesn't matter to me.

[00:14:13] You know, we're, we're just always doing our thing.

[00:14:15] Um, and so we have had to like kind of over and over again, re protect the, the time to

[00:14:24] like take care of ourselves and to make sure that our routine stays on track.

[00:14:28] And so like, you know, right now we have like, we've done a good job.

[00:14:32] Like we've stacked it.

[00:14:33] So like the mornings are protected creative time.

[00:14:36] And then like lunch is always together.

[00:14:38] And then we always go for a walk before lunch.

[00:14:40] It's like a 40 minute, like there's a lot of like protected moments in the day.

[00:14:44] Um, and then sometimes there's emergencies and those things get trampled or like the walk

[00:14:49] is just business talk the whole time.

[00:14:51] And you know, like, so it's, it's always like, uh, it's always slipping away from you.

[00:14:56] Right.

[00:14:57] Entropy is always taking place.

[00:14:59] Um, and so every now and then it's like, we're about to like explode and it's like, okay,

[00:15:03] what the fuck is going on?

[00:15:05] Stop everything.

[00:15:06] And you always have to, anytime you have to stop, it's always in the moment where it's

[00:15:09] like, we cannot stop.

[00:15:11] And that's when you need it the most.

[00:15:12] Right.

[00:15:13] And so it's like, stop everything.

[00:15:15] What is going on?

[00:15:16] What really matters?

[00:15:18] What are the priorities?

[00:15:19] And we all, we're both like super ambitious.

[00:15:22] We're both like overachievers.

[00:15:25] We, everything has to be perfect.

[00:15:27] Um, and everything matters and everything's important, you know?

[00:15:31] And so, yeah, it's just like sometimes getting that reality check of, Hey, like everything

[00:15:36] can't happen all at once.

[00:15:38] Things take time.

[00:15:40] Resources are limited.

[00:15:41] And, um, yeah, just kind of, sometimes it's almost, sometimes it helps to be like, you

[00:15:47] know what?

[00:15:47] Fuck it.

[00:15:48] I quit.

[00:15:48] And just kind of like mentally imagine what it would be like to stop everything.

[00:15:52] What's that like?

[00:15:54] Uh, it could be freeing.

[00:16:00] Even though like very quickly, I remember like, Oh yeah, you're never going to stop.

[00:16:05] Like I would have stopped a long time ago.

[00:16:08] Like I've always picked, I think I've always picked the hard way, you know, even so with

[00:16:13] the dramas, it's like the easy way would have been keep pushing the button, take the brand

[00:16:16] deals, take the money, build an empire or just build a retirement.

[00:16:19] Like, you could, you know, it could have been any other way, but I wanted to do this thing.

[00:16:23] And like, um, even, you know, I could have gotten a good job.

[00:16:26] I could have, I could have been a programmer, you know, I could have, there's a lot of like

[00:16:29] paths I could have taken that would, I'd be very comfortable and I could have like time

[00:16:34] or leisure and like all these, you know, I could have a nice life, but, um, and I have

[00:16:38] a nice life not to say, you know, but like there's, there's plenty of other ways to make

[00:16:42] lots of money and be happy.

[00:16:44] Um, but there's something that I'm chasing, um, that makes me keep picking the hard way

[00:16:54] or, um, or I'm just making it hard for myself.

[00:16:59] Uh, subconsciously who knows?

[00:17:02] Like, I wonder if you, that thing that you're chasing, have you been able to externalize

[00:17:10] it and isolate it and say it is X?

[00:17:15] I, every like few months, maybe like twice a year, I try to like, what the fuck is it

[00:17:21] that I want?

[00:17:22] Like, come on.

[00:17:23] Like, what is, what is all this?

[00:17:24] You know?

[00:17:25] Um, at some point I was like, oh, like I had it down to a sentence.

[00:17:30] It was like, I just want to make cool shit with cool people.

[00:17:34] I was like, that makes sense.

[00:17:35] That I, I love that.

[00:17:37] I, that's some of my favorite memories, right.

[00:17:39] Are like making cool shit with cool people.

[00:17:41] Um, and then I did that, you know, worked on half of 99 nights with Charlotte and, uh,

[00:17:49] producing and, and co-writing and, uh, came off of that.

[00:17:53] And it's like, there's another path, you know, there's another kind of, it's not easy, but

[00:17:56] like there's another route I could have gone is like, okay, from this success of this project,

[00:18:00] I could go and start writing and producing for lots of other artists and like bounce

[00:18:05] around room to room.

[00:18:07] Um, but there's like, and it's fun.

[00:18:11] It's fun also to like support someone else's vision because then the weight isn't on your

[00:18:15] shoulders.

[00:18:16] Like there's nothing more fun than like throwing ideas at someone else.

[00:18:19] And they're just like, yes, no, no, no, yes, no.

[00:18:22] And you, and so you don't have to worry.

[00:18:23] You just keep spitting stuff out.

[00:18:25] And as long as some of it sticks here, you know, it's good.

[00:18:28] And so that's really fun.

[00:18:30] So, which is weird.

[00:18:31] I just keep, it sounds like I'm infinitely contradicting myself, but somehow I just keep coming

[00:18:36] back to like, no, I need to like have my vision and bring it to life.

[00:18:40] And I think one of the things that I, that's been on my mind for a long time is like a great

[00:18:46] album.

[00:18:47] I want to make a really great album.

[00:18:50] Um, and I think no, probably no matter what album I make, I'll always want to make an even

[00:18:57] greater one.

[00:18:58] Uh, so it makes me want to ask you then, are you saying everything you've just said out loud

[00:19:05] and hearing yourself say it, um, when you finally I'm confident, given your, your, the

[00:19:14] nature of how you seem to operate, that you're going to achieve the thing that you're after.

[00:19:18] But I'm curious when you finally achieve that thing, whether that thing, that goalpost just

[00:19:24] moves even further and further.

[00:19:25] So you'll never really achieve the thing that you want.

[00:19:28] And, and I've had conversations with people who've described that.

[00:19:32] And I have reflected myself on that thing for me where, because the goalposts constantly moving

[00:19:39] further and further, you're never really satisfied.

[00:19:41] And it's not a very good state to be in.

[00:19:44] Yeah, no, it's, um, I'm pretty sure the goalposts will keep moving.

[00:19:54] Um, so when does Lublin get to finally sit back, relax and go, now I could rest on my

[00:20:01] laurels.

[00:20:06] I just want to sit.

[00:20:08] I just, I have the voice in my head that goes, hopefully never.

[00:20:11] Interesting.

[00:20:12] Yeah.

[00:20:15] I, there's nothing wrong with that.

[00:20:16] I love it.

[00:20:17] I love, I just love, I think I need, I need something to be chasing after.

[00:20:24] I need the North star that I'll never reach.

[00:20:27] I need a reason to take steps forward.

[00:20:30] You know, I need some kind of insane, impossible thing always.

[00:20:36] Um, and I think whenever what I'm doing, there's two ways that, that there's two things that

[00:20:43] happen that, that make me want to stop something.

[00:20:46] One is I stopped believing that it's possible, which I do all the time.

[00:20:52] I come back and forth on that.

[00:20:53] And the other is I, it's too easy.

[00:20:56] And I know, I know what the result's going to be and it's going to be fine.

[00:20:59] And then I have to try, I've got to do something else.

[00:21:03] That's maybe another reason why I'm not doing the dramas.

[00:21:05] It's like, I think I know if I get the right piece of content and I do it right, like it's

[00:21:09] just going to work.

[00:21:11] I'd be curious.

[00:21:11] It might, might not work anymore.

[00:21:13] Right.

[00:21:13] Like the algo has changed the like audience, like everything's different now.

[00:21:17] Um, but yeah, I think I always want to be chasing something great.

[00:21:25] And otherwise I don't know what to do with myself.

[00:21:27] You know, I just make up things.

[00:21:29] So is it the chase that drives you?

[00:21:33] I think so.

[00:21:33] More than the actual achievement of the thing.

[00:21:36] I mean, I'm sure that the, to go from like 600 followers on Instagram to hitting a viral

[00:21:41] video on TikTok, there's a dopamine rush that happens there.

[00:21:44] Yes.

[00:21:45] And then that immediately goes away and you want more and then you're just chasing.

[00:21:49] You're caught in that cycle.

[00:21:50] So for you, is it the chase?

[00:21:53] I think so.

[00:21:54] I think it's the, um, it's the process of, of cracking it, of, of like figuring it out.

[00:22:01] Satisfaction is very brief.

[00:22:02] I mean, I mean, it was longer when it was, you know, like that first one was like, I think

[00:22:07] in the first day, I think in the first hour it had hit 200,000 views and we were like,

[00:22:13] oh shit, it's not stopping.

[00:22:14] And then by the end of the day, it was in a million views and we're like, what is going

[00:22:17] on?

[00:22:18] Like that was dopamine, but honestly, like maybe like poisonous.

[00:22:23] Maybe not the first time.

[00:22:24] Cause it was just, there was so much going on, but like after a while, it's like you

[00:22:27] post a video who is doing well.

[00:22:29] Ooh.

[00:22:30] Like the next day it's like, oh, it's still going.

[00:22:32] And the third day is like, okay, it's slowing down.

[00:22:34] And then like, you know, like this is, and then, and then like by day four, your brain

[00:22:38] is just sapped.

[00:22:39] There's no dopamine left.

[00:22:40] And it's just like, it's a huge hangover.

[00:22:42] So now when I post things, I don't even look.

[00:22:44] Like if I'm doing, if I'm on my good behavior, I stopped looking at the stats.

[00:22:49] And when I realized like I'm in a bad state of mind, it's like, cause I'm like autopilot

[00:22:53] looking at stats.

[00:22:54] I'm like bouncing between all the apps and say, what are you doing?

[00:22:57] Like, are you, you know, rating your, your worth?

[00:23:00] Are you gauging?

[00:23:01] Like what's, it's just, yeah.

[00:23:03] I think the stats are like, it's like a drug.

[00:23:07] It's, it's a hard, you know, I, from the outside, people will look at the accounts and

[00:23:13] the views and everything and go, wow, here's a creator that's doing extremely well complaining.

[00:23:18] Yeah.

[00:23:19] Yeah.

[00:23:19] Yeah.

[00:23:20] But there is something to be said about the, the dopamine rush followed by the hangover,

[00:23:25] followed by the fact that your brain is just drained from constantly refreshing the different

[00:23:30] apps, looking at how it's doing, comparing it to a previous post, making you wonder whether

[00:23:36] your next one that you already had planned is going to work.

[00:23:38] And then also secretly comparing yourself to other creators who might be in the same space

[00:23:42] as you and seeing what they're doing.

[00:23:43] And it's just this constant like ping pong inside your head.

[00:23:48] Yeah.

[00:23:49] You're, you're done.

[00:23:50] You're like emotionally, mentally drained by the end of it.

[00:23:53] Pride.

[00:23:53] A hundred percent.

[00:23:54] Yeah.

[00:23:54] It's a, maybe an occupational hazard.

[00:23:57] Yeah.

[00:23:57] Like it's, it's, it's crazy.

[00:23:59] And like, yeah, like I'm like, don't get me wrong.

[00:24:01] Right.

[00:24:01] Like not complaining.

[00:24:02] Like it's a great, but, but I think you have to manage it.

[00:24:05] You have to be thoughtful about it because it will suck you in and you won't even notice.

[00:24:09] So how do you, how do you, what guardrails have you put in place, whether it's for yourself,

[00:24:14] with your partner together?

[00:24:15] Cause you said that she's part of this whole thing.

[00:24:18] Yeah.

[00:24:18] What guardrails have you put in place to protect you from getting to the point where you're

[00:24:23] emotionally drained for, for four days because you spent that much time just refreshing

[00:24:27] a single video?

[00:24:28] Um, it's a good question.

[00:24:31] It's, it should probably be more fleshed out than it is.

[00:24:34] Um, right now I almost like, I don't feel like I need quite the rules, but like we basically

[00:24:44] when we post, we sit down together.

[00:24:46] I handle some of the platforms, she handles some of the platforms and everything is planned

[00:24:51] out ahead of time.

[00:24:52] Um, so like all the captions and the hero comments and all that stuff is like pre pre figured out

[00:24:57] because it's somehow like way less anxiety inducing to figure it out ahead of time than

[00:25:01] to sit down and, and do it in like right before you post.

[00:25:05] Right.

[00:25:05] Um, and then we post and then, um, we go for a walk like pretty much right after it.

[00:25:10] Like we check comments like early on in case someone's like this whole video is muted or

[00:25:14] like, you know, something, something's wrong.

[00:25:16] Yeah.

[00:25:16] And also like the early comments tend to be the sweet ones.

[00:25:18] And then like the longer it goes, the more you get like the randos showing up.

[00:25:23] Actually the first comments are the spam bots, but the second, second round of comments are

[00:25:26] the, are the sweet people, uh, sweet fans.

[00:25:29] So we check out their comments, but, um, and then like, I just like, I think like I kind

[00:25:34] of learned like, Oh, there's nothing for you there.

[00:25:37] Just stop looking.

[00:25:37] Like it's not, and also like, you know, I have, um, people on my team who are like keeping

[00:25:45] an eye on that stuff for me and who are kind of strategizing and thinking about it.

[00:25:49] So, um, it becomes easier, but like I did like a YouTube panel, like with like other

[00:25:55] creators in, in Montreal.

[00:25:56] Uh, I think it was last year, uh, with, um, alongside Gherky and, uh, Marianne, uh,

[00:26:03] Bizon's I think, um, amazing interior designer and the other ones does like food reviews and

[00:26:08] that kind of thing.

[00:26:10] And, uh, the audience was asking questions and then I like realized like they didn't

[00:26:14] know their like click through rate.

[00:26:15] And I was like, hang on a second.

[00:26:16] And I was like, how often do you guys check your stats?

[00:26:18] And both of them were like, never.

[00:26:20] And I think, and these guys have been in it for years.

[00:26:22] They've really like a stat.

[00:26:23] And I think like, it's the only way at some point as a creator.

[00:26:27] And like, obviously like they're in a position they don't have to look when you're starting

[00:26:30] out, you have to know what's going on.

[00:26:31] But, um, at some point you have to come to a place where you just don't look.

[00:26:37] I think.

[00:26:39] I'm, I'm fascinated by all of this because it makes me wonder, um, you know, like, so

[00:26:46] when we post content for the podcast, for example, I'm doing the same thing.

[00:26:51] I'm like constantly refreshing, like, how's this one doing?

[00:26:55] And then transparently, and this is the first time I say this out loud, you know, we do these

[00:27:01] collab reels with our guests when we're promoting that an episode has dropped.

[00:27:06] And sometimes I'm like, if a reel doesn't do well, I'm like embarrassed.

[00:27:09] And I'm like, they're never going to want to work with me again.

[00:27:12] And like, I start to internalize all of this and I have to stop and remember that there's

[00:27:17] so many different reasons why it's not popping off yet.

[00:27:21] It could be time of day.

[00:27:23] It could be whatever.

[00:27:25] Totally.

[00:27:25] And I have to stop internalizing that, but it's something that I struggle with because

[00:27:29] I'm constantly creating the content for the podcast.

[00:27:32] Um, and I'm trying to find a way to not look at the stats and just go, is the art form,

[00:27:39] the creation, the product, is that still, did I put my all into that?

[00:27:45] If the answer is yes, 200, 2000, 200,000 shouldn't matter as much.

[00:27:52] Yeah.

[00:27:52] Easier said than done.

[00:27:53] So much easier said than done, but I think you're, you hit the nail on the head.

[00:27:57] Right.

[00:27:57] Like at the end of the day, like, I mean, even when I look at my favorite content creators

[00:28:03] and this is, there's like two, I have two parallel thoughts going on right now, but, but they're,

[00:28:07] they connect and it's a good, cause you kind of said like, you're afraid that people will

[00:28:10] judge you on those numbers.

[00:28:11] They'll never want to work with you again.

[00:28:12] And I think, um, for me, when, when I think of that for myself, it's cause I've been judging

[00:28:19] other people by their numbers and not to say that my, I don't know if that's your

[00:28:23] experience or not, but like, Oh yeah, absolutely.

[00:28:25] You look at the numbers.

[00:28:28] You're comparing your, you know?

[00:28:30] And so then you just imagine that people are looking at you through the lens that you would

[00:28:35] look at them.

[00:28:36] And then you, and you know what you're doing, you know, like what your vision is, where

[00:28:41] you're going with it and your own potential, hopefully, you know, most of the time.

[00:28:46] And you know that other people don't.

[00:28:47] And so, you know what you do or don't look like.

[00:28:50] And anyway, but, but the other, Oh, the other thought is gone, but it's okay.

[00:28:54] Yeah.

[00:28:54] It's what we were talking about like how, you know, I'm worried that people won't want

[00:29:01] to work with me if they see the number because it didn't pop off for whatever reason.

[00:29:05] It could be a number of factors that prevent it.

[00:29:07] And then loving what you made.

[00:29:08] Yes.

[00:29:09] And, and so lately I'm trying to judge creators on, do I love what they made or, or can I

[00:29:17] tell that like they put their heart into it?

[00:29:19] And actually my favorite content now often is like, Oh, you had to really not care to

[00:29:26] make this piece.

[00:29:27] This piece defies all the rules.

[00:29:29] And then like, if it didn't work, Hey, you're fucking, you're trying, you know?

[00:29:33] And if it did work like, Oh yeah.

[00:29:35] Like you fucking, you deserve that.

[00:29:37] Like you made something that you believe in.

[00:29:40] That's your vision.

[00:29:41] That's so cool.

[00:29:42] And people agree.

[00:29:44] Well, and like, by the way, like the algorithm, you know, people agree in the sense of like

[00:29:49] they gave it the watch time that the, you know, like it's not, it's not a reflection

[00:29:52] of whether or not something's good, but there's a Venn diagram, you know?

[00:29:57] But yeah.

[00:29:58] And I, and I'm trying to apply that to my stuff too.

[00:30:00] It's like, you know what, let's stop thinking about what's going to work and start thinking

[00:30:03] about like, what is interesting to me?

[00:30:07] What's fun?

[00:30:07] You know, like what, where is the magic?

[00:30:09] So what are you not doing right now that you want to be doing?

[00:30:13] Oh my God.

[00:30:15] Everything.

[00:30:16] I always want to be doing everything.

[00:30:19] Um, I am onto the next one in my head.

[00:30:26] It's probably not the right thing to say while promoting one album.

[00:30:29] I love this album.

[00:30:31] This album was great, you know, but I'm like, once it's done, it's like, I need to be thinking

[00:30:36] about the next one.

[00:30:36] So I've heard of artists who are building two albums simultaneous to each other.

[00:30:41] And as they're building some pieces, they'll say this one is actually better suited for that

[00:30:46] second one.

[00:30:46] And they'll park it for that one type of thing.

[00:30:48] Yeah.

[00:30:49] Yeah.

[00:30:50] I think, I think that's, um, kind of what happened with this album too.

[00:30:55] Um, and then I was listening to Motomami by Rosalia.

[00:31:01] And I realized that there's kind of two albums in there too, but they're fascinating because

[00:31:06] it's a duality.

[00:31:07] So like Motomami has some songs where they are very simple sounds, these tiny little vocal

[00:31:13] samples and drum samples, but they're creating all this complexity and chaos.

[00:31:17] And then there's other songs where it's very, um, rich, complex sounds.

[00:31:24] Like, um, you've got Corey Henry, one of the greatest organ players, but he's playing the

[00:31:28] simplest parts.

[00:31:29] So you have rich complexity, simple kind of form.

[00:31:34] And then you have like super simple sounds, complex form.

[00:31:39] Um, and, um, so like when we talk about light, if we start talking about dark, we're still

[00:31:43] having the same conversation.

[00:31:45] And so when I was making the album and I had some point, I was like, fuck, this is two albums.

[00:31:49] And I started kind of categorizing them.

[00:31:51] And I realized like that instinct, that human, we always want to like, uh, Oh, these belong

[00:31:56] together.

[00:31:56] And these are the same, you know, we always want to filter, but actually there's a dialogue.

[00:32:01] And so the album is kind of like two sounds that like talk to each other.

[00:32:07] Um, and, uh, but there's also been, there's a lot of songs that didn't quite make this album

[00:32:13] because they just didn't still didn't make sense in that narrative that I know, like there's

[00:32:17] another project for them.

[00:32:19] And there is kind of like, Oh, this, these ones kind of something's happening here.

[00:32:23] And now I'm like starting to build out a storyline and, and that thing.

[00:32:27] But what do you, what are you hoping people hear feet?

[00:32:31] Maybe not hear what are you, what emotion do you want people to, to feel when they hear

[00:32:37] your music?

[00:32:40] Um, what's your goal?

[00:32:48] I guess whatever, whatever you feel is, is.

[00:32:52] When you, once the, once I'm done with it, you know, whatever you feel is valid, whatever

[00:32:56] you think the song is about, that's what it's about for you.

[00:32:59] And that's cool.

[00:33:00] Um, I think what I'm often chasing is, um, taking two things that you don't usually feel

[00:33:11] at the same time and trying to make you feel them simultaneously.

[00:33:16] Um, which like connects again to like why I feel like the dramas are just an extension of

[00:33:20] what I'm always doing.

[00:33:21] Like the dramas are like, let's take something stupid and make it beautiful.

[00:33:24] And in the process you find, um, a whole new dimension.

[00:33:28] It's like, it's not adding, it's multiplying.

[00:33:31] You get, you get like, you, you have a huge, there's a human experience in there that you

[00:33:34] get to kind of take in.

[00:33:36] Um, and so I think that's kind of what I'm doing.

[00:33:38] You know, the, the first song on the album is called dog and it's actually secretly a

[00:33:44] very dark, well, dark.

[00:33:47] It's a sad, it's a very sad piano ballad that has been dressed up as a big drum and bass pop

[00:33:54] record.

[00:33:54] Um, and I, I like, I love it because it's like the chorus is, um, I don't know how to

[00:34:01] find peace.

[00:34:02] I don't know how to find the stillness that I need, but when it hits while you're driving,

[00:34:07] it is cathartic.

[00:34:09] It is peaceful.

[00:34:10] And so it's like maybe in admitting that you can't find peace, there's peace within that.

[00:34:15] And that's like, I don't know, like, like that's magic.

[00:34:19] So like, I'm, I'm looking for those kinds of, that's where the magic is for me.

[00:34:25] Yeah.

[00:34:25] I don't know if that answers your question.

[00:34:27] I mean, it answers it in the only way it can.

[00:34:30] Like as an artist, you're trying to, you're creating something, you're creating art and

[00:34:36] how I receive it is dependent on a number of factors that it's outside your control.

[00:34:42] Totally.

[00:34:43] Um, my emotions that day.

[00:34:45] Uh, did I sleep well?

[00:34:46] Am I in the mood for this kind of music?

[00:34:49] All sorts of stuff like that.

[00:34:50] But I wanted to actually go back a second because a thought popped into my head.

[00:34:54] We talked about guardrails and talked about how you and your partner have been putting in

[00:34:59] the work together.

[00:35:00] You're both ambitious.

[00:35:02] Sometimes you don't know what day of the week it is because you're just working so much.

[00:35:06] Yeah.

[00:35:07] Where is there room for you and your partner to just have your authentic relationship?

[00:35:15] When you're, when you're working together and I've had conversations like this in the past

[00:35:20] where when you're working with your partner, sometimes there's no clear line between when

[00:35:26] you're working, when you're not working and one can take over the other.

[00:35:30] Absolutely.

[00:35:31] Um, yeah.

[00:35:34] It's a conscious effort that has to, um, when you both want something real bad and you have

[00:35:42] a whole team of people helping you and, um, moving things forward.

[00:35:50] Um, there is no slowing down and, um, excuse me.

[00:35:57] And, um, so how do you, yeah, we are, we're not, we never stopped working, right?

[00:36:04] Like there's always an opportunity to talk about something.

[00:36:06] I think sometimes we will, we'll just call it like if we're like eating and it's like,

[00:36:11] we're talking shop and it's like just stress and it's like, all right, let's just enjoy

[00:36:15] the meal.

[00:36:15] And we'll talk about after like, we'll make room for it.

[00:36:18] I think we also like, we're trying to go on like a real vacation or something we've more

[00:36:24] or less never done, you know, like maybe, maybe like three days, you know?

[00:36:28] Uh, so like we try to like take some time.

[00:36:30] How dare you?

[00:36:31] Yeah.

[00:36:31] You know what I mean?

[00:36:32] Like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[00:36:34] Yeah.

[00:36:34] Well, what's, what's crazy is when everything's rolling, you know, a hundred miles an hour,

[00:36:39] you, you could force like a day of rest.

[00:36:45] And then the next day when you get back into it, it's like, fuck, this would be a lot less

[00:36:51] stressful if we had done some of this yesterday.

[00:36:54] And then, and then you remember, and then the next time you go like, we should really rest.

[00:36:57] It's like, yeah, but then it's going to sting later.

[00:36:59] So you have to kind of, what we're trying to figure out is like how to like see far enough

[00:37:04] to kind of like pull the all nighters now so that like, we don't have to later.

[00:37:10] Yeah.

[00:37:10] Um, but that's really hard to do because you know, all of our minds are constantly changing.

[00:37:15] We're all figuring it out.

[00:37:16] A lot of firsts are happening right now.

[00:37:17] It's my first album.

[00:37:18] Like, um, I got my first show coming up.

[00:37:22] It's like, there's a lot of stuff going on.

[00:37:24] So nervous.

[00:37:25] Yeah.

[00:37:26] You don't hear a lot of artists talk about that, but the, every single one experiences it.

[00:37:30] Oh yeah.

[00:37:31] Yeah.

[00:37:32] And I mean, I just, so I'm excited.

[00:37:36] Like, I think the show is going to be great.

[00:37:38] I have a great team around me.

[00:37:40] You know, my creative director, JB, who is like really into shows and stuff.

[00:37:45] And he's like, I've been waiting for this since the start, man.

[00:37:47] Like, let's figure this out.

[00:37:49] And I think together we're like, we're, we're figuring it out.

[00:37:51] And with my partner as well.

[00:37:53] And, and with the, with the team, I've got great support.

[00:37:56] Um, but you know, I have spent, um, a lot of my life saying to people, like, I'm not a singer.

[00:38:06] I'm a producer who uses his voice.

[00:38:09] Um, so like I'll do like 40 takes and I'll comp them together.

[00:38:13] I'll record the song slow and then just speed it up.

[00:38:17] You know, I will, you know, auto tune, pitch correction, like every trick in the book.

[00:38:22] And to me, it's not, I don't see it as cheating.

[00:38:25] I'm just trying to make the best record I can.

[00:38:28] Right.

[00:38:28] With the tools that I have.

[00:38:29] I'm an artist.

[00:38:29] I just use the tools to make the things I want to make.

[00:38:32] And that's no secret.

[00:38:33] Like I don't, but, um, there's a difference between as long as I can get it once in 40

[00:38:38] takes, I'll be okay.

[00:38:39] And I need to get it right.

[00:38:41] Like 39 out of 40 times.

[00:38:44] Um, and so I'm trying to like embody this identity of like, okay, I'm a performer.

[00:38:48] I'm a singer.

[00:38:49] I've got a vocal coach who is amazing.

[00:38:51] Who's like, I'm like, I feel the progress I'm growing.

[00:38:56] Um, and, uh, it's transformation.

[00:38:58] When you're on stage though, that's a one for one shot at it.

[00:39:02] Exactly.

[00:39:04] Especially because the first show.

[00:39:06] So, so luckily it's only 20 minutes.

[00:39:07] Okay.

[00:39:08] So, but, and it's a showcase.

[00:39:11] So there's, uh, um, so there's other artists and each one, I think there's like three of us,

[00:39:17] two or three of us that night.

[00:39:19] And we just get like 20 minutes.

[00:39:21] Maybe the last artist gets a longer set and half the room, uh, is industry people.

[00:39:26] Okay.

[00:39:27] So it's like an 800 capacity room.

[00:39:29] It's about half of the room is industry people who are kind of there to judge what you're

[00:39:33] doing.

[00:39:34] Sounds like it.

[00:39:35] It doesn't feel like the best context for consuming art, right?

[00:39:39] Like anytime you're consuming art with from a, like, is this good perspective?

[00:39:42] Like how many of them are standing there not saying anything or moving their bodies and just

[00:39:48] staring at you?

[00:39:49] God only knows.

[00:39:49] And you can't really feed off that.

[00:39:51] Yeah.

[00:39:51] And then you have to like pretend that you're feeding off something.

[00:39:55] And then you, yeah.

[00:39:56] Which like happens in interviews too.

[00:39:58] Like sometimes like an interviewer, you're just like, okay, like they, they're just doing

[00:40:02] their job, which is fair.

[00:40:03] Like everyone's going to do their job.

[00:40:04] But if I have to pretend like I'm getting the, the like vibe, you know, and then like I

[00:40:09] come out of that and I just feel like, oh, it's the worst.

[00:40:13] So, um, but yeah, yeah.

[00:40:16] But, but I think it's been great, but I'm, I'm like, I'm, I'm figuring that, that challenge

[00:40:20] out.

[00:40:20] And it's terrifying because it's like, in some ways I feel like I'm just getting started

[00:40:26] on a part of my career that other artists are, you know, have been doing since the beginning.

[00:40:33] Um, but at the same time, it's like, it's exciting.

[00:40:36] It's a new beginning and I get to crack a new puzzle.

[00:40:38] So yeah, trying to, I'm trying to always see it in the positive light, but sometimes it's

[00:40:43] too scary.

[00:40:44] What does your inner circle look like?

[00:40:47] Hmm.

[00:40:48] Um, very tight.

[00:40:50] Um, I have, you know, obviously my partner, um, I have my creative director, JB Poo have,

[00:41:00] um, at the label, uh, slash.

[00:41:02] So the label is also my management.

[00:41:04] Um, so I have Jason Brando who is, uh, Charlotte and I's mutual manager and he's a great songwriter

[00:41:11] and creative person.

[00:41:13] Um, and he, he's really good for like, like, I'm a like doubt everything.

[00:41:17] I'm a like turn every stone.

[00:41:18] What about this?

[00:41:19] What about that?

[00:41:19] And he's a very like, it's this.

[00:41:21] And then, but like, um, quick to make up his mind, but also quick to change it.

[00:41:26] So that's great.

[00:41:27] Cause I can just be like, but what about this?

[00:41:29] And then he'll be like, oh, well then it's that.

[00:41:30] I'm like, oh, okay.

[00:41:31] And then I can like, you know, operate, I can live.

[00:41:34] Yeah.

[00:41:34] Um, then I have, um, Ellie who's like my day to day and who takes such good care of me and,

[00:41:40] and she's, you know, managing stuff and, and just making sure everything's moving and she's

[00:41:44] my champion inside the label.

[00:41:46] And, um, and then on the label side, we've got Jen and Lori and, uh, Marie Sam.

[00:41:52] And so all these people are in your inner circle.

[00:41:54] I mean, I don't know if this is inner circle, but like, it's a, I guess we're starting to

[00:41:58] extend out.

[00:41:59] But, um, I mean like who outside of your partner.

[00:42:03] Yeah.

[00:42:04] Okay.

[00:42:05] Let me rephrase the question.

[00:42:06] What does your friend circle look like?

[00:42:08] Like who are the, who are the people in your life and you don't have to name them or anything,

[00:42:12] but just who are those people that you can turn to when things aren't going well?

[00:42:17] You're challenged.

[00:42:18] You're struggling.

[00:42:19] You need to turn to someone.

[00:42:21] You need to vent.

[00:42:21] You just need a night out, a bite to eat.

[00:42:25] It's a good question.

[00:42:27] Um, I do have.

[00:42:29] I do have friends.

[00:42:29] I promise.

[00:42:30] Uh, no, I do.

[00:42:31] I believe you.

[00:42:32] I do have friends.

[00:42:35] Um, and I think the truth is like, we're, we're always so busy working that a lot of my

[00:42:41] friends are the people I work with.

[00:42:43] Okay.

[00:42:44] Um, and, but I have great relationships with those people.

[00:42:49] You know, when, when Jason comes over to work on music together, you know, we ended up

[00:42:55] spending like seven hours, the first three of which are just like.

[00:42:58] Talking about concepts and philosophy and AI and what's going on with you.

[00:43:02] And he's working on the company and he's telling me stuff and, and I'm telling him like

[00:43:06] how I'm panicking.

[00:43:07] And then he's, you know, um, but then like, I have like, um, some old friends as well

[00:43:12] that we keep in touch and we text all the time, see each other at Christmas.

[00:43:15] Um, do you find that with the old friends in particular, that they look at you differently

[00:43:21] or treat you differently because of the, the social presence?

[00:43:26] Um, persona.

[00:43:29] No, no, no, I mean a little, I'm sure, you know, in a way I think, I mean, all of them

[00:43:37] I'm sure would, would just say like, yeah, we knew, we knew it would have, you know, like

[00:43:41] this kind of people.

[00:43:43] Um, but I think at the end of the day, it's like, we're still, we're still who we are.

[00:43:47] We, we, we've all grown also, obviously, you know, we've all kind of gone down our different

[00:43:52] life paths and, and that's kind of fun to see how, like, how everyone kind of made their

[00:44:00] own way.

[00:44:02] Um, no, I think the only thing that changed from, from like having like numbers on the

[00:44:10] board was like my own confidence meeting people.

[00:44:16] I don't know people who don't know what I do or what I'm, it was like, suddenly it was

[00:44:21] like, Oh, everyone is just like automatic respect.

[00:44:25] And it changed how I feel in that same way that like you, when you like look at the numbers

[00:44:31] and you're like, Oh, these people are judging me.

[00:44:33] I was like, for, for at least a hot minute there, it was like, Oh yeah, this kid, they

[00:44:37] can't really, you know, they can't say shit, you know?

[00:44:41] Um, which I don't know if it was healthy or not, but I feel like there was part of it

[00:44:44] that was healthy.

[00:44:45] It was like, Hey, you're, you're, you're good at what you do.

[00:44:48] Like, it's okay.

[00:44:49] Like, you know, and not like kind of being like, am I an idiot?

[00:44:51] Like the fuck am I doing with my life?

[00:44:54] It's like, now it's like, Oh, okay.

[00:44:56] The point, you know, proof's in the pudding now.

[00:45:01] I want to end the conversation off with asking you, what is one piece of practical advice

[00:45:08] you would give someone who's in the process of building their art form, whatever that

[00:45:16] is, but that same practical advice was one that you could have used when you were starting.

[00:45:22] Um, okay, let's, let's go with this.

[00:45:48] Um, especially if it's like a creative practice and you're, you're trying to like figure out

[00:45:53] like what your, what your thing is or, or you're trying to make something great.

[00:45:58] Um, you would be surprised how many ideas get thrown out.

[00:46:04] Um, I think the great art is so much more about curation.

[00:46:12] And so I think in a way what a lot of great people do and what I've seen, um, people do

[00:46:19] is like just generate so many ideas and then, and never it's like, it's attachment and detachment.

[00:46:27] So be attached to what you're making in the sense that you're passionate.

[00:46:31] You care about it.

[00:46:32] No, one's going to care more than you about the thing.

[00:46:33] So you got to fucking love it.

[00:46:36] But detachment in the sense of like, if there is a idea that doesn't, you could love it.

[00:46:43] You could be obsessed with it.

[00:46:44] But if the greater vision of what you're doing, it doesn't, it is better when you remove it,

[00:46:49] let that shit go.

[00:46:50] And, and trust that, you know, that's not your last good idea.

[00:46:54] You know, if you like the more bad ideas you come up with, the more good ideas you come up with.

[00:47:00] And you'd, you'd just be surprised like how many things get thrown out in the process of making something good.

[00:47:06] So just, yeah, just keep making stuff and then, and then get good at knowing which things to keep curation.

[00:47:15] Yeah.

[00:47:15] That's hopefully useful to somebody.

[00:47:18] Lublin, thank you so much, my friend.

[00:47:20] Thank you.

[00:47:20] This was great.

[00:47:21] This was fantastic.

[00:47:22] I enjoyed every minute of it.

[00:47:23] I like to have these conversations where it's just like, let's talk about, you know, your journey and what people don't know about you.

[00:47:32] And it's so fascinating to me.

[00:47:34] I think the biggest takeaway is the, you know, you may be known for one thing, but there's a whole other person behind that one thing.

[00:47:42] I think it reinforces that idea that we are creative, complex human beings with, you know, when they tell you to pick your niche, you're kind of a walking contradiction to that in a good way.

[00:47:54] Thank you.

[00:47:55] Thank you.

[00:47:55] Although sometimes I'm like, okay, you should just pick a thing.

[00:47:58] But yeah, but you know what?

[00:47:59] And this was awesome.

[00:48:00] And I think your questions were great.

[00:48:32] You know, that are not as easy to clip and soundbite and go viral.

[00:48:38] Yeah.

[00:48:38] Um, so thank you.

[00:48:40] Appreciate it.

[00:48:40] Thank you for the kind words.

[00:48:41] I really appreciate your time.

[00:48:43] Good luck with everything you're doing.

[00:48:45] Good luck with the show.

[00:48:46] You're going to kill it.

[00:48:47] Thanks.

[00:48:47] You're going to rock it.

[00:48:48] Um, and let's keep in touch as I would love to follow this journey along.

[00:48:53] And, you know, after your show and after you do many, many, many, many more shows, and then once you're on to your next venture, um, maybe we can do a part two as well.

[00:49:03] I would love that.

[00:49:04] Amazing.

[00:49:04] Awesome.

[00:49:05] Thank you so much.

[00:49:05] Thank you so much.

[00:49:06] Thank you so much, everyone.