Sarah Ahmed: Western Therapy Practices Clash w/ Immigrant Mental Health Needs | Ep.89 - Gent's Talk

[00:00:00] Your inner child, the best parent to your inner child is you, not your parents.

[00:00:06] Because what you want from your parents and this is for me you and everybody listening in,

[00:00:11] they're likely not going to give it to you.

[00:00:30] You and I have talked for a while about making this happen.

[00:00:38] And I've been keeping tabs on the work that you do, which is super important, super incredible.

[00:00:45] Sarah, welcome to the Gents Talk Podcast.

[00:00:48] The Pock Therapist as you're commonly known as.

[00:00:51] Pock I presume is person of color.

[00:00:53] You got it.

[00:00:54] Yeah.

[00:00:55] See I am smart.

[00:00:58] Why does that part matter?

[00:01:00] I think it matters because when you look at any kind of practices that have been in the mental health space,

[00:01:05] or actually just a mental health space, there's not a lot of us.

[00:01:09] And even now over the last decade there's been a lot of changes.

[00:01:12] But if you still look around, there's not a lot of people who look like me.

[00:01:16] So you'll see diversity but it's tough to see hyper visible minorities available there.

[00:01:22] Practices a lot of practices continue to be heavily rooted in Western traditions,

[00:01:28] which don't necessarily work.

[00:01:30] Anything the most common thing we hear from people, listen I'm looking for somebody who gets it

[00:01:35] because if there's one more person who says you just got to move out or cut your parents off,

[00:01:39] I'm going to lose my mind.

[00:01:41] And that's I think the misnomerate people don't seem to comprehend.

[00:01:45] There's different cultural considerations that don't always shine through in an obvious way.

[00:01:51] Given your work in this space, how long have you been doing this now?

[00:01:57] Think over a decade. You're going to age me here.

[00:02:00] Go with the young I'm 22 so.

[00:02:03] Absolutely 21.

[00:02:05] Now legal in a lot of places.

[00:02:09] In the decade, have you seen improvements in the mental health space for persons of color?

[00:02:16] Yes, I have seen substantial improvement over the last five to seven years.

[00:02:22] I think COVID was a big factor.

[00:02:24] It really just like pushed a lot of mental issues to the surface.

[00:02:28] A lot of companies started increasing their mental health budgets as it means to attract top talent as well.

[00:02:34] A lot of well, the whole BLM movement in summer of 2020 was I think also very, very substantial and bringing people

[00:02:41] like making sure that companies are aware of this.

[00:02:44] A lot of spaces are aware of this and talk about and prioritize mental health.

[00:02:48] Mental health is much more of a common conversation that's come up now.

[00:02:51] In some industries it's still a little bit taboo because you know,

[00:02:54] it's career suicide if you go on short term disability,

[00:02:56] if you're perhaps in like, you know, the legal space,

[00:02:59] if you're in banking perhaps.

[00:03:01] But it is getting much more common over the last few years I've seen.

[00:03:06] When I first started out, I was at a hospital and I used to be the person that they used to go to often

[00:03:12] because I was the only one who looked like me.

[00:03:14] I was actually the only person of color forget this had jowled my head

[00:03:17] and they could spot me out the window.

[00:03:18] They were like, she's walking right over there, go get her because we have a client

[00:03:21] who you know I feel like might not be comfortable talking to me

[00:03:24] and she come in to talk.

[00:03:25] So even if I didn't speak their language, the client's language,

[00:03:29] they were just comfortable having a person of color in the room with them.

[00:03:32] So they didn't feel as though they were being stripped away from things

[00:03:35] or their values are important to them.

[00:03:37] And so, to answer your question the short answer is yes

[00:03:41] and I'm happy to see it.

[00:03:42] It's not enough but it's a start.

[00:03:45] Is there actually you know what?

[00:03:47] Before I jump into that, what more is needed when you say it's not enough?

[00:03:52] Yeah.

[00:03:53] I think there needs to be, well let me back track.

[00:03:57] As a student, I remember reading my textbooks

[00:04:00] and looking at a lot of the journals and articles

[00:04:03] and I was like, there's no way I'm using that stuff.

[00:04:06] No way because I'm thinking about it for myself.

[00:04:08] And frankly, that's why I got into the profession

[00:04:11] because I was looking for somebody like me when I was younger.

[00:04:13] So I was like, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:04:15] If at therapy I'm walking out, I was like, no, no, no.

[00:04:18] This is honestly not going to apply to me.

[00:04:21] And so I'm not going to follow these rules

[00:04:24] and I'm kind of going to like mishmash a couple of things

[00:04:26] and make my own way of doing things.

[00:04:28] And I saw how successful that became.

[00:04:31] And how much needed it was, the reason why I was successful

[00:04:34] is because it was just a needed service.

[00:04:36] People needed intersectionality.

[00:04:38] There was a lot of like, like I say, western principals don't necessarily apply.

[00:04:43] People not being diagnosed appropriately.

[00:04:45] The other thing also is it can lead to a lot of misdiagnosis, not being aware.

[00:04:51] So a lot of times we would hear anybody who would go to the ER

[00:04:54] they would say, oh you know she's an immigrant

[00:04:56] like she's just adapting to the culture.

[00:04:58] That's why she's having a tough time.

[00:05:00] But no, there's underlying issues there that were being ignored.

[00:05:03] So I think we need a lot more education.

[00:05:06] Does that matter what area?

[00:05:08] I still have family doctors to this date, clients, family doctors who say

[00:05:11] you don't have any problems or real problems.

[00:05:14] You don't need medication for anxiety.

[00:05:16] It's fine.

[00:05:17] You know, you have a job, you've got kids, it's fine.

[00:05:19] It's okay, like everybody fights, everybody gets upset.

[00:05:21] But they don't think about it as a way

[00:05:23] to like improve quality of life.

[00:05:25] So education is required on a lot of levels,

[00:05:27] unlike the highest of the high levels where you're going to your physician as a care provider.

[00:05:31] Or just you know when we see police brutality it's like

[00:05:34] the most common thing we see over and over again.

[00:05:37] And they're not mental health informed so we need that.

[00:05:39] We need resources in the sense that we do need people of color.

[00:05:42] If you look at the popular look step outside here.

[00:05:45] Most people look like you and me, you know.

[00:05:48] But if you look inside the psychotherapy spaces,

[00:05:50] most people don't look like you and me.

[00:05:52] So then what happens is if you don't look,

[00:05:54] there's a huge mismatch that's there.

[00:05:56] And you're not providing your,

[00:05:58] you're not providing your community the needs it requires.

[00:06:02] Which will obviously have an economic impact on a larger scale.

[00:06:05] But I guess people are not looking at that.

[00:06:07] And that's when you see hospital numbers are going up.

[00:06:10] You know, people are accessing emergency more because they don't know what to do.

[00:06:13] They don't know what else to do.

[00:06:14] Where else to turn to.

[00:06:16] And if you've just ignored something for such a long period of time,

[00:06:19] eventually it's going to catch up to you, right?

[00:06:21] The body speaks to you in volumes.

[00:06:24] And the way we're all designed is your body will have pretty similar responses.

[00:06:29] So if it's burnt out over and over and over,

[00:06:31] you will probably at some point experience maybe a panic attack,

[00:06:34] maybe some sort of medical health concerns,

[00:06:36] maybe develop hypertension at a young age.

[00:06:39] And you might find friends of yours that you know yourself who are young

[00:06:42] and you'd be like, dude, you're way too young to have that.

[00:06:45] What's going on?

[00:06:46] It's probably something going on underneath there.

[00:06:48] They're not aware of.

[00:06:49] They haven't been guided in the right direction.

[00:06:51] So we do need a lot more people that look like you and me.

[00:06:54] You can have something on the outside that's not represented on the inside in these spaces.

[00:06:58] Is there, so I'm going to ask, I'm playing devil's advocate for a moment

[00:07:05] and correct me if I'm wrong being the expert.

[00:07:09] If two people are going in for support, for anxiety, let's say.

[00:07:16] How does the treatment differ between a person of color and a person who's not of color?

[00:07:23] My initial thought is you're treating anxiety.

[00:07:28] I understand there has to be a level of uncovering cultural norms and biases

[00:07:36] and all that underlying things that exist there.

[00:07:40] But ultimately at the end of the day,

[00:07:42] you're working towards curing anxiety in this example.

[00:07:46] Yes.

[00:07:47] Is it that much different between person A and person B?

[00:07:51] Yeah, because the first question I would ask is what is the reason for that anxiety that's there?

[00:07:55] Right.

[00:07:56] There's a lot of environmental factors that are in play.

[00:07:59] So let's say it's you.

[00:08:00] What's your background?

[00:08:01] I'm from Lebanon.

[00:08:02] Okay, wonderful.

[00:08:03] It's probably going to be a difficult conversation you might have with your mom

[00:08:07] because she has no idea of perhaps any kind of mental health-related issues.

[00:08:12] I'm assuming she grew up in Lebanon.

[00:08:14] Yeah, she grew up in a war.

[00:08:15] Oh, yeah.

[00:08:16] So then there's a lot of stuff her body's gone through

[00:08:19] and her bones and genetic system actually remembers

[00:08:21] because it's likely that her mom and her mom also experienced that.

[00:08:25] So it gets passed down.

[00:08:26] And that's called intergenerational trauma.

[00:08:28] And it's very likely that you also probably carry some of that in your body.

[00:08:32] Now does that mean that you know what?

[00:08:34] You're screwed?

[00:08:36] Have they don't do nothing about it?

[00:08:38] Yeah, you probably are.

[00:08:39] But if you do something about it,

[00:08:41] there's ways to maintain a very healthy lifestyle.

[00:08:43] It's like saying your mom's got diabetes, grandma had it,

[00:08:46] great grandma had it.

[00:08:47] Are you going to have it?

[00:08:48] Yeah, you could.

[00:08:49] But if you maintain your lifestyle a certain type of way

[00:08:52] and you have a specific type of diet,

[00:08:54] you are at a higher risk.

[00:08:55] Being at a higher risk is different from guaranteed your screw.

[00:08:58] Right?

[00:08:59] Similarly as well.

[00:09:00] A friend, consider her to be a friend and a colleague in the community,

[00:09:04] a very old bouquet.

[00:09:05] She came out with a book and it's called Breaking the Cycle.

[00:09:08] That's specifically what she's referring to.

[00:09:10] And she talks about how you can go up to set seven generations,

[00:09:13] passed down in the genes.

[00:09:15] A lot of generations.

[00:09:16] Yeah, and you know what?

[00:09:18] That's why you're just like,

[00:09:19] how is it that everybody's so messed up in my family?

[00:09:22] And you know, how many times we hear our friends say,

[00:09:24] no man, you don't know.

[00:09:25] My family's like really messed up.

[00:09:27] And then it's the Olympics.

[00:09:29] It's a trauma Olympics, right?

[00:09:30] Because if it, no, no, no.

[00:09:31] You don't know why I called it.

[00:09:32] Well, let me tell you this story.

[00:09:33] And then it's somebody else is like, no, my aunt hold on.

[00:09:36] You know?

[00:09:37] So it's just, these stories start getting shared and you're just like,

[00:09:40] whoa, what's going on?

[00:09:41] But then that speaks to specifically to the environment that they grew up in.

[00:09:45] So I'm sure if your mom, you know, maybe she's able to have those conversations with you.

[00:09:49] A lot of times the body shuts down and represses those memories

[00:09:52] because it's so difficult to bring it up.

[00:09:54] And not having the tools or resources to process it.

[00:09:57] You don't want to do.

[00:09:58] It goes into overdrive.

[00:09:59] So it just shuts down a lot of times.

[00:10:01] So if it was you and your mom versus a friend of yours who kind of grew up over here,

[00:10:06] let's say, you know, Canadian or yeah, let's just say Canadian.

[00:10:12] It's probably easy for your friend, George, let's call him to have a conversation

[00:10:17] with George as mom compared to you and your mom because your mom's likely not going to understand it

[00:10:23] to the depth of the way George mom will.

[00:10:26] You probably will be able to not create some boundaries with your parents,

[00:10:30] the way George would.

[00:10:32] And that's what makes it very different because when you can't create boundaries,

[00:10:36] or you don't have the skills to, because it's in mesh with so much guilt and shame

[00:10:42] that also comes with it because we're a family unit.

[00:10:44] We don't leave our own.

[00:10:46] We are all we have.

[00:10:48] And somebody else can do that and you're like, oh, must be nice.

[00:10:52] You have that distance and you can move out.

[00:10:54] Oh my God.

[00:10:55] I wish I could move out, but I don't have good enough reason.

[00:10:58] If I tell you that, you'd be like, yeah, or you might be like,

[00:11:01] you moved out as a girl alone.

[00:11:02] What had you pulled that off?

[00:11:04] You'd be shocked, right?

[00:11:05] But if Melissa told you that, would you ask her anything?

[00:11:08] No.

[00:11:09] Yeah.

[00:11:10] Those things do play a huge role.

[00:11:12] So consciously too.

[00:11:13] Because we're not looking to sever those relationships.

[00:11:16] They're very meaningful relationships.

[00:11:18] But on the flip side to it, we also assume, no, we also experience a lot of pain from those relationships.

[00:11:27] A lot of times being unintentional because many most immigrant kids will tell you

[00:11:33] their parents love them very deeply.

[00:11:36] They don't know how to show that.

[00:11:39] I think you can relate to that from the smirk on your face.

[00:11:43] I can too.

[00:11:44] I think most can.

[00:11:45] I think they did the best they could.

[00:11:47] Yeah, but you hear that most people will say something like that.

[00:11:51] They did the best they could.

[00:11:53] And you know, you say that as a means to make yourself feel a little bit better?

[00:11:56] No, but yeah.

[00:11:57] Well then what do you do when they say something tomorrow that pisses you off?

[00:11:59] And when I tell you about that here, you'll click a clown and you're like,

[00:12:02] she's doing the best she can just to get you proud.

[00:12:06] But where do you go?

[00:12:07] Because you're going in the bedroom next to her and you're just like,

[00:12:09] I can't escape.

[00:12:10] What do I do?

[00:12:11] That was my childhood.

[00:12:13] My parents worked tirelessly.

[00:12:18] And my father and my mother grew up in a civil war.

[00:12:25] And my father lost his father didn't really have that male role model around him.

[00:12:31] And so his relationship with me, my father tells me he loves me.

[00:12:35] My father and I have a great relationship when it's good, it's great.

[00:12:39] But we but had so much growing up and I would get mad at him because I couldn't understand

[00:12:46] why he was so tunnel visioned on so many things.

[00:12:50] And as I get older, I realize he also just didn't know what he didn't know

[00:12:54] because he didn't have the luxury of having someone to show him.

[00:12:58] Right?

[00:12:59] So he just kind of learned as he went.

[00:13:02] But the idea that that suffocating feeling at times existed.

[00:13:07] Or I need to get out, I can't be here.

[00:13:12] And I almost feel guilty saying that.

[00:13:14] Funny enough.

[00:13:15] Welcome to a session my friend.

[00:13:17] Yeah.

[00:13:18] I'll send you the bills.

[00:13:20] But it's interesting because there were moments where I felt guilty.

[00:13:23] There's still moments today where if my parents asked me to do something

[00:13:27] or we get into a disagreement and I just get so mad.

[00:13:30] And then I'm like, well, I'm getting mad.

[00:13:32] They're getting older.

[00:13:33] They need my help.

[00:13:35] Yeah.

[00:13:36] Why am I getting mad?

[00:13:37] Yeah.

[00:13:38] But it's a very interesting dynamic and a very interesting relationship that we have with our parents.

[00:13:42] Now what would you say if a therapist told you you need some distance,

[00:13:44] you need to not see your parents or speak to them as much?

[00:13:47] I think I've intentionally been doing that.

[00:13:50] And there's moments where I feel guilty about doing that.

[00:13:53] But I knew that there was no way I can build myself in that environment.

[00:13:58] I needed to leave.

[00:14:01] And luckily there was an opportunity to move out and the whole shebang and whatnot.

[00:14:07] But I find myself now as I'm getting older and they're getting older and they're reliance on me.

[00:14:15] It's funny, the reliance that I used to have on them has now flipped completely.

[00:14:19] Yeah.

[00:14:21] But that I'm spending more time helping them with things as they're getting older.

[00:14:26] But it's not that simple because even though they're at your mercy for a lot of things,

[00:14:30] they still pull the Trump card on you being like, yeah, I need you to do this for me because without you I can't have it done.

[00:14:35] But don't forget, I'm still your parent.

[00:14:37] So I'm going to call the shots and you're like 100%.

[00:14:40] What I'm paying? What's this? And they're like, and?

[00:14:43] No.

[00:14:44] But a part of me is also like you probably have earned that right.

[00:14:48] I mean considering what you have to do to come here and even give me an opportunity to say these words back to you,

[00:14:54] I'll buy my tone.

[00:14:56] Yeah.

[00:14:57] But that requires a certain level of awareness, certain level of skill set and certain level of regulation.

[00:15:04] And a lot of people don't have that.

[00:15:06] How old were you when you moved here?

[00:15:08] To Canada, I was six months old.

[00:15:10] Okay, so very young.

[00:15:11] Yeah.

[00:15:12] But what happens is when you grow up in a traditional household where parents kind of hold on so tight

[00:15:17] because they also feel a sense of betrayal leaving their countries.

[00:15:20] Right?

[00:15:21] So I want to every aspect of every ounce of culture.

[00:15:25] You speak Arabic?

[00:15:26] Yeah, casually.

[00:15:28] So it's like hammering it in because we left so there's a guilt comes and then there's the fear of we're going to lose everything.

[00:15:36] We came here so we got a hammer and I'm fluent in Ordo.

[00:15:40] I can read right.

[00:15:41] We were doing Hindi all of that because of that.

[00:15:43] They really hammered it in.

[00:15:44] And I'm very happy about it because you know when my friends kids who are around if they're Pakistan or India

[00:15:49] and I speak to them in Ordo even when they have pets like say things to their pets in Ordo and you know

[00:15:54] because I liked that part of my culture.

[00:15:56] Right.

[00:15:57] So when you have that but then you've grown up here and most people around you have a very different type of lifestyle.

[00:16:03] That's where we run into so many issues kids like you and me because you're just like

[00:16:08] but I grew up so heavily in this cultural household.

[00:16:11] And you start to almost despise certain aspects of it because we have this thing called internalized colonialism.

[00:16:18] Where we're taught that the white man's way is the right way.

[00:16:23] And you know, that's the joke.

[00:16:25] One of my really good friends Christina, she's Italian and I'm like of course Christina we said is right.

[00:16:29] White is always right.

[00:16:31] And she's like stop it, stop it.

[00:16:33] You're maybe so uncomfortable.

[00:16:34] And you know you probably picked up one and making people uncomfortable is something I love doing.

[00:16:38] Yes.

[00:16:39] You did it as soon as you walked in.

[00:16:41] It's one of my talents.

[00:16:42] One of my many useless talents.

[00:16:45] So you know that's something that we start to reject.

[00:16:48] We start to really reject on how ourselves our bodies girl start dying their hair.

[00:16:53] We wear contacts, change our eye colors because you don't like who we are.

[00:16:57] And when you grow up here you really internalize that even more.

[00:17:00] Especially back in you know 80s 90s you're just like not a lot of us who look like us.

[00:17:05] So you're just like I'll do whatever I can to blend in.

[00:17:08] But if you think about it it makes sense right because who wants to stick out like a sore thumb?

[00:17:13] But then how do you blend that with what your mom is saying to you and Arabic?

[00:17:17] You're like don't pack the garlic sauce.

[00:17:19] I love the garlic sauce but no.

[00:17:22] I don't love the garlic breath because they boil chicken while yeah.

[00:17:25] And that's where we're going to go with and your mom's going to be like it's not good.

[00:17:29] But you're just like well chicken it is like a clash of civilizations happening in your life.

[00:17:33] It is yeah but at 12 you don't care about that.

[00:17:35] What you care about is you want to belong.

[00:17:38] And when you don't belong and you don't feel like you belong what's going to happen?

[00:17:41] You feel isolated impacts your self esteem.

[00:17:45] How do you recover from something like that because I think a lot of us have carried that exact issue.

[00:17:50] Yeah.

[00:17:51] And the self-awareness piece is important but you made a point not a lot of us are self-aware.

[00:17:57] Yeah.

[00:17:58] That carries with us and that colors all of our relationships, all of our interactions.

[00:18:03] Yeah.

[00:18:04] Firstly, how do you become self-aware?

[00:18:06] Someone who's our fortunate you just stumbled into a situation and suddenly you're like I do this.

[00:18:11] Yeah.

[00:18:12] But for a lot of people that self-awareness doesn't even exist.

[00:18:15] You know this might be not so popular opinion but I do hold like I do very much stand by this opinion of mine which is

[00:18:24] I don't think North America or the lifestyle in North America is one that fosters self-awareness.

[00:18:31] It's neither one that helps you get basic groceries and pay rent either.

[00:18:35] That's a problem right now.

[00:18:38] But if you think about it when your busy schedule is glorified,

[00:18:45] when you have 6,000 things on your plate and you're just hustling with your fourth side hustle

[00:18:51] and you're making a dollar here and there and there and there and there and that is celebrated.

[00:18:54] And then they want you to take that money and spend it on stupid things that you don't really need but it's just nice to flex those things.

[00:19:01] How do you even have a minute to sit to just catch up with your body before a healthy shoe pops up and tells you pump the brakes you need to slow down.

[00:19:10] Relax.

[00:19:12] One of the biggest things we see in couples therapy is the fact that couples don't have time for each other.

[00:19:16] They're both doing great, power couple, we love this idea.

[00:19:19] He's a lawyer, she's a doctor, we're doing this to this and then you know what?

[00:19:23] Any chance we get, we book a flight four day vacation to here to their exotic places.

[00:19:27] We love seeing these things on Instagram.

[00:19:29] And we're just me. I'm like where is this? This is beautiful too.

[00:19:32] And then I have to pump the brakes to be like, whoa, relax, what are you doing?

[00:19:34] Because it's so easy to subscribe to that and I'm like, I want a slice of that life but I don't and I've actually had to work really hard as a woman because there are certain things that were,

[00:19:44] you know, I feel like they're built into me.

[00:19:46] I couldn't even show up here with empty handed.

[00:19:49] No, you showed up with a box of cookies because it was very sweet of you.

[00:19:52] You're kind.

[00:19:53] I had to because then I would have been like, oh my god, I hear my mom's voice in the back.

[00:19:57] And my sister's like, you're so rude. It was wrong with you.

[00:19:59] How could you? He's like one of us.

[00:20:01] The all sorts of things would popped up even if you weren't. You know what I mean?

[00:20:04] But it doesn't matter. Like there's things that are wired into us.

[00:20:08] And like you need to be able to pause and reflect and understand.

[00:20:15] And what people don't realize is you need actually time to do nothing.

[00:20:20] That's a big one.

[00:20:21] What's everybody's, oh, that's so boring.

[00:20:23] I struggle with that one.

[00:20:25] I feel like if so, if I'm sitting there and I'm not doing anything,

[00:20:33] I start to get antsy.

[00:20:35] Like I need to be doing something.

[00:20:37] I need to either be working or learning something or listening to a podcast

[00:20:43] or watching something or just something because,

[00:20:46] and it's not that I'm afraid to be with my own mind or I don't like the noise.

[00:20:50] I come to learn how to accept that noise.

[00:20:52] I've learned to come to accept the information that seeps into my brain

[00:20:56] and work through those thoughts.

[00:20:58] And when I need a moment to let that sink in, I do.

[00:21:01] But I also sometimes will sit there and go,

[00:21:04] all right, I've been sitting here now for an hour watching my endless television.

[00:21:09] I've lost an hour.

[00:21:11] I could be doing something else.

[00:21:13] Yeah. So what you're referring to is my time needs to be productive.

[00:21:15] Yes.

[00:21:16] And if it's not productive, I've wasted my time.

[00:21:18] 100%.

[00:21:19] Because also another thing is the member capitalism is a religion of the North.

[00:21:22] Yes.

[00:21:23] North America and Europe as well.

[00:21:25] And so time is money.

[00:21:27] And if you're not doing something productive, doesn't account to money.

[00:21:29] It's not a skill.

[00:21:30] So you got to be continuously do something, something, something.

[00:21:33] Because if you don't, it's wrong with you.

[00:21:35] Sometimes we hear our parents do, right?

[00:21:37] And sometimes I feel like I'm my mom.

[00:21:39] I feel like I'm older sister, like yelling at you, you know,

[00:21:42] being like, what's wrong with you?

[00:21:43] Why are you sitting there?

[00:21:44] Do something with your life, you know?

[00:21:46] And it does come out because we hear these things a lot as well.

[00:21:50] And that's the thing, yes.

[00:21:52] No time doesn't have to be, time does not equate to money.

[00:21:55] What it does actually is, let me backtrack.

[00:21:59] One of the most powerful things I remember years ago I heard was

[00:22:02] what a success mean to you.

[00:22:03] Success actually means to me that I'm able to get to a place

[00:22:07] where I have the time to do the things I love.

[00:22:09] Meaning I can be someone to actually come clean the house regularly.

[00:22:13] So I can, I can build, I can buy time for myself that successful.

[00:22:17] And you know, I thought about that and I was like, oh, goals.

[00:22:20] And you know, all these years later,

[00:22:22] I think that's still my top goal of how I define success.

[00:22:25] It's not X dollars or it's not this in that.

[00:22:28] It's, do I have time to do the things I enjoy?

[00:22:31] So I don't, I can afford the luxury of doing the things I enjoy

[00:22:35] and not doing things like cleaning the toilets

[00:22:38] and like organizing the kitchen, finding the lids to the, you know,

[00:22:41] the boxes, somebody else can do that.

[00:22:44] So you have that time, what are you doing with that time?

[00:22:47] If you're sitting there mindlessly scrolling,

[00:22:49] doom scrolling or watching Netflix,

[00:22:51] then you probably did waste that time.

[00:22:53] But that's because that time's not intentional.

[00:22:56] So it's about the intentionality

[00:22:58] about the purpose behind what you're doing in that time.

[00:23:01] Yeah.

[00:23:02] A lot of times people will go for a run and then after that

[00:23:05] you've got the runners high.

[00:23:07] But then after that you're still able to kind of sit and reflect.

[00:23:10] You know, certain things, thoughts come into your mind.

[00:23:13] In the shower, one of the best places you get the best ideas

[00:23:16] a lot of times or sometimes very problematic ideas.

[00:23:19] If you were me, so my showers are in and out.

[00:23:22] It's like no, no, no, no, no.

[00:23:24] That is too much of a long time.

[00:23:26] We don't need more problems in my life.

[00:23:28] So in and out, but that's actually the art of self-reflection.

[00:23:32] And there's a lot of questions you can ask yourself.

[00:23:34] But the one question I find is so helpful

[00:23:36] that anybody can start anytime

[00:23:38] and you know, everybody free therapy.

[00:23:40] Yeah. So take notes.

[00:23:41] Be curious about stuff.

[00:23:43] I love that.

[00:23:44] Be curious about something.

[00:23:45] Be curious about something.

[00:23:46] Because when you're curious what you're doing is

[00:23:48] you're trying to approach it from something

[00:23:49] from a place of what's going on with me.

[00:23:52] Why did I have such a strong reaction?

[00:23:54] My mom said that to me.

[00:23:56] She said, cut your hair.

[00:23:57] Pist me off.

[00:23:59] Why?

[00:24:00] Most people will go into,

[00:24:03] oh, she's always making comments.

[00:24:04] She's never happy.

[00:24:05] I think I look good, you know.

[00:24:06] Because of all these comments she made,

[00:24:08] a girl was like such low self-esteem

[00:24:10] and body image issues and this and this and this.

[00:24:12] Before jumping into that part,

[00:24:14] take a breath, quite literally pause and ask yourself

[00:24:17] why did I have such a strong reaction to it?

[00:24:20] When you start approaching life with a sense of curiosity,

[00:24:23] you'll be able to better navigate conversations

[00:24:25] with your partners, with your friends,

[00:24:27] any relationships.

[00:24:28] Even when it comes to work challenging questions

[00:24:30] because what it's doing is it's giving you

[00:24:33] an insight into yourself.

[00:24:35] And the more insight you have into yourself,

[00:24:37] the better you'll be able to regulate.

[00:24:39] The better you'll be able to navigate.

[00:24:41] Following your curiosity,

[00:24:43] I find always leads you down a much happier place.

[00:24:47] Because you're not as tense about it.

[00:24:50] Yeah.

[00:24:51] And I feel like we've lost our ability

[00:24:52] to be curious about things

[00:24:53] because all the information is available to us

[00:24:55] to the click of a button.

[00:24:56] Yeah.

[00:24:57] Which is not always a good thing,

[00:24:58] especially when it comes to therapy world.

[00:25:00] I get hit up with like,

[00:25:01] you think it's beneficial

[00:25:03] and I'm just like no,

[00:25:04] you know, one of the worst things that can happen.

[00:25:06] My husband he does this.

[00:25:07] He'll probably watch one or two videos somewhere online.

[00:25:10] He's like, you know, don't try to gaslight me.

[00:25:12] Sorry.

[00:25:13] And I was like, boy, sit down.

[00:25:14] You don't even know what you're talking about.

[00:25:15] You know, don't try that with me.

[00:25:17] But that's what it is

[00:25:18] is people will learn this therapy speak.

[00:25:20] And I hear it so often when it comes

[00:25:22] to people using in conversations.

[00:25:24] Oh, he's a narcissist.

[00:25:25] Oh, she's trying to gaslight me.

[00:25:27] But do you even know what happened?

[00:25:29] No.

[00:25:30] Somebody disagreeing with you doesn't mean

[00:25:31] they're gaslighting with you.

[00:25:32] There's a specific definition of how you define gaslighting.

[00:25:35] So you do have information

[00:25:37] at the click of a button.

[00:25:38] Not always a good thing.

[00:25:39] No, I got to ask you about

[00:25:42] when people are growing up

[00:25:46] in a household that

[00:25:48] where there was tension, right?

[00:25:52] When they see their parents

[00:25:54] and there's tension between their parents

[00:25:56] versus growing up in a household

[00:25:59] where they see affection

[00:26:01] between their parents.

[00:26:02] They see communication between their parents.

[00:26:04] What's the biggest

[00:26:06] side effect of the two?

[00:26:09] On the most basic genetic level,

[00:26:11] you'll notice a body that's more tense step

[00:26:14] versus the body that's more relaxed.

[00:26:16] And you can pick up on things very quickly

[00:26:18] because like I said,

[00:26:19] human beings actually irrespective

[00:26:21] of race, religion, gender,

[00:26:22] it doesn't matter.

[00:26:23] We all have similar responses.

[00:26:25] That's why you're able to tell

[00:26:26] when somebody doesn't know anybody.

[00:26:27] The other person,

[00:26:28] because body language is a bit more tighter.

[00:26:30] So the more you're around people,

[00:26:32] the more you pick up on it.

[00:26:33] The more you approach it

[00:26:34] from a sense of curiosity,

[00:26:35] you can pick up on it.

[00:26:37] And when you have a child

[00:26:40] who's grown up in a household

[00:26:41] where there's a lot of conflict

[00:26:42] and you see those with pets as well, right?

[00:26:44] Like you're bringing your dog

[00:26:45] or cat and there's certain type

[00:26:47] of tension in the house.

[00:26:48] They don't have the language

[00:26:49] to communicate to you,

[00:26:50] neither do the babies,

[00:26:51] but they do know

[00:26:52] and they always gravitate towards it.

[00:26:54] And I'm sure you've heard

[00:26:56] you know,

[00:26:57] somehow kids always know

[00:26:58] which uncle to go to

[00:26:59] or auntie to go to, right?

[00:27:00] Why?

[00:27:01] Because they know it's

[00:27:02] a specific type of energy

[00:27:03] and they gravitate towards that

[00:27:05] because they don't have the language

[00:27:06] but they do know.

[00:27:07] So that's similarly

[00:27:08] you'll notice that.

[00:27:09] Impact of it as you get older,

[00:27:11] you'll notice that you're less confident in yourself

[00:27:13] because your soul wound up.

[00:27:14] You're more jumpy

[00:27:15] for lack of a better word.

[00:27:16] Things startle you quickly

[00:27:18] because your nervous system

[00:27:20] is probably an overdrive

[00:27:21] because it's so tense.

[00:27:22] You might notice that

[00:27:24] when you feel so stressed out,

[00:27:25] it leads to other things

[00:27:26] like a weakened immune system.

[00:27:27] You fall sick more,

[00:27:28] people have more health issues.

[00:27:29] In short,

[00:27:30] stress is basically the cause

[00:27:31] to everything

[00:27:32] and when you grow up

[00:27:33] in a stressful household,

[00:27:34] it's very likely

[00:27:35] you'll internalize it

[00:27:36] and you don't realize

[00:27:37] that you're internalizing it

[00:27:38] until you move out,

[00:27:39] which I know for a fact

[00:27:41] that you also 100% realized

[00:27:44] a lot of things

[00:27:45] about your parents after you moved out.

[00:27:46] You don't even have to say yes to that.

[00:27:48] Yeah.

[00:27:49] I will say yes.

[00:27:50] It's funny

[00:27:51] because my household

[00:27:53] was fully aware

[00:27:54] of my household

[00:27:55] was full of tension.

[00:27:56] I think a lot of that

[00:27:59] had to do with the fact

[00:28:00] that my parents worked

[00:28:01] as long as they did.

[00:28:03] Yeah.

[00:28:04] Tiring jobs.

[00:28:05] It wasn't sit down

[00:28:06] office-type jobs

[00:28:07] around their feet all day.

[00:28:09] Yeah.

[00:28:10] Coming to Canada

[00:28:11] learning the new language,

[00:28:12] leaving their family

[00:28:13] behind the tension

[00:28:16] of seeing a civil war unfold

[00:28:19] in front of their eyes,

[00:28:21] not being being

[00:28:22] being sort of stripped away

[00:28:23] from all of that

[00:28:24] and sort of carrying

[00:28:25] all that tension coming

[00:28:26] to Toronto.

[00:28:27] And then, yeah.

[00:28:29] I could,

[00:28:30] one I moved out,

[00:28:31] it's funny,

[00:28:32] the best way I could describe it

[00:28:33] is quiet.

[00:28:34] Yeah.

[00:28:35] It was a lot quieter

[00:28:37] when I moved out.

[00:28:38] And now,

[00:28:40] it's funny when I go back

[00:28:42] to see them,

[00:28:43] it's always so loud

[00:28:45] in the house.

[00:28:46] And I'm just like,

[00:28:47] can you turn down the TV

[00:28:48] for a little bit?

[00:28:49] Can we just not yell

[00:28:50] in the house

[00:28:51] and we're like,

[00:28:52] we're not yelling.

[00:28:53] And we laugh

[00:28:54] when we make jokes about that.

[00:28:55] But it's very much

[00:28:56] something that I've noticed.

[00:28:57] I think would be the biggest thing

[00:28:58] I notice.

[00:28:59] You know, Samir,

[00:29:00] I pray that you get to the day

[00:29:01] where you go in

[00:29:02] and you embrace the loudness

[00:29:03] because there's a certain sense

[00:29:05] of familiarity

[00:29:07] that comes with it.

[00:29:08] The chaos.

[00:29:10] If you have been

[00:29:11] to a family wedding,

[00:29:12] you're just like,

[00:29:13] oh my god.

[00:29:14] Why am I here again?

[00:29:15] But something about it,

[00:29:16] once you get to a place

[00:29:17] of acceptance,

[00:29:18] and I guess that's what I'm referring

[00:29:19] to for you,

[00:29:20] it comes to Shalif very soon

[00:29:21] for you,

[00:29:22] where you get to a place

[00:29:23] of acceptance,

[00:29:24] where you're just like,

[00:29:26] if I lived here,

[00:29:27] I'd probably die in two weeks.

[00:29:28] But there's something about it

[00:29:30] in this moment

[00:29:31] when I look around

[00:29:32] and I see my mom yelling

[00:29:33] at my dad who's in the kitchen,

[00:29:34] trying to help her

[00:29:35] but he's just driving her nuts

[00:29:36] and she's yelling at my other cousin

[00:29:39] but she's also on the phone

[00:29:40] with my aunt,

[00:29:41] you know, who's in the root

[00:29:42] right now or whatever it is

[00:29:43] and she's yelling at me

[00:29:44] being like,

[00:29:45] take garbage out,

[00:29:46] so-and-so is coming.

[00:29:47] There's so much chaos

[00:29:48] but if you actually take a moment

[00:29:49] and try this out next time,

[00:29:50] take a moment

[00:29:51] and freeze yourself

[00:29:52] in that moment

[00:29:53] and just look around,

[00:29:54] there's actually so much beauty

[00:29:55] and that chaos

[00:29:56] because that's survival for them.

[00:29:58] Hmm.

[00:30:00] Hmm, that's interesting.

[00:30:02] And I do hope you get to a point

[00:30:04] where you actually start to love it

[00:30:05] because you'll find humor in it

[00:30:07] and the way things work out

[00:30:10] with there's so much going on

[00:30:12] all at the same time

[00:30:14] but somehow

[00:30:15] things fall into place.

[00:30:18] You're just like this?

[00:30:19] Hmm.

[00:30:20] This is more than just God.

[00:30:22] There's something going on here, you know?

[00:30:24] Well, so when my ex and I split up,

[00:30:28] I decided I was gonna go stay with my parents

[00:30:30] for a couple of days.

[00:30:32] Oh boy.

[00:30:33] And that was like a full circle adjustment

[00:30:36] of like just being under the roof again.

[00:30:39] It was, I think, maybe three, four days max

[00:30:41] but just those three, four days

[00:30:43] between the emotions

[00:30:44] of everything else that was happening

[00:30:46] and then being under their roof again,

[00:30:49] I literally felt as safe as I could

[00:30:52] but also as constricted as I could feel

[00:30:56] because it reminded me of like the

[00:30:59] this is not my home.

[00:31:01] This is someone else's house.

[00:31:03] I'm living by someone else's rules

[00:31:05] and I've grown to love my own independence

[00:31:07] so much so that I don't sacrifice it for anything.

[00:31:10] Yeah.

[00:31:11] But then there was still that safety

[00:31:14] of being back there

[00:31:16] during a traumatic life moment.

[00:31:19] Try to explain that to a white therapist

[00:31:21] because I know exactly what you're talking about

[00:31:24] and that answers the first question

[00:31:26] that you asked me,

[00:31:27] what's the difference between

[00:31:28] using a white client, let's say,

[00:31:30] versus a POC client,

[00:31:32] both of them dealing with anxiety.

[00:31:34] That's the difference

[00:31:36] because therapists who don't understand

[00:31:38] their nuance there will tell you

[00:31:41] why would you do that?

[00:31:42] When you said that to me,

[00:31:44] I said, ooh, but I knew exactly

[00:31:45] what was going to come

[00:31:46] because it's activation of inner child

[00:31:48] that little boy who used to live at home

[00:31:51] that came out

[00:31:52] but also at the same time

[00:31:53] that little boy is in an adult body.

[00:31:55] So that's what I mean by there's

[00:31:58] intersectionality

[00:31:59] and people need to pick up on that

[00:32:01] that nuance they don't understand that

[00:32:03] so of course you would go to your parents for comfort

[00:32:05] which child doesn't

[00:32:07] and also at the same time

[00:32:08] these are parents who've come

[00:32:09] from a place of experiencing heavy trauma

[00:32:11] in their youth

[00:32:12] and they don't know how to navigate that themselves

[00:32:15] and how do they give you something

[00:32:17] they don't even know exists.

[00:32:18] There's that as well.

[00:32:19] So two things to be true

[00:32:21] because you went back there

[00:32:22] because you know that

[00:32:23] that place as chaotic as it is

[00:32:25] is an immense place of love for you.

[00:32:27] You know there's like

[00:32:29] limitless love there

[00:32:30] might not be shown in the most lovely ways

[00:32:33] but you do know it, it's very core

[00:32:35] and most immigrant kids say that.

[00:32:37] It's shown in not healthy ways

[00:32:39] however we don't know

[00:32:40] that they love us.

[00:32:41] So you went back there

[00:32:43] in hopes that you would get a certain type of love

[00:32:45] and comfort

[00:32:46] but that's when you realize

[00:32:47] you're barking up the tree

[00:32:48] that doesn't even have that fruit.

[00:32:50] Right?

[00:32:51] It makes perfect sense

[00:32:53] why you would do that.

[00:32:54] I think most people

[00:32:56] will do that

[00:32:57] when they're having a difficult time.

[00:32:58] A lot of friends of mine

[00:32:59] who have babies

[00:33:00] are like yeah, you know

[00:33:01] I'm going to move in with my mom

[00:33:02] for the first month

[00:33:03] till I adjust

[00:33:04] helping with cooking and cleaning

[00:33:05] and then they're like

[00:33:06] yeah you know

[00:33:08] the cooking and cleaning

[00:33:09] it that's helpful

[00:33:10] but it's tough

[00:33:12] and I'm like yeah

[00:33:13] that's because there's a tax

[00:33:14] you got to pay with everything

[00:33:15] you know

[00:33:16] and this is called

[00:33:17] the mental health tax

[00:33:18] so either I or Nanny

[00:33:20] and pay someone to do it

[00:33:22] or you get the free help

[00:33:23] from your mom

[00:33:24] but you know...

[00:33:25] It comes out of cost.

[00:33:26] How do we heal the inner child?

[00:33:27] Oh boy.

[00:33:28] You're asking for my secret sauce.

[00:33:30] I am.

[00:33:31] How do we heal the child inside

[00:33:34] that we've been taught

[00:33:36] to like just stay

[00:33:39] stay over there?

[00:33:40] Yeah.

[00:33:41] I'm a grown adult

[00:33:43] you know

[00:33:44] I'm doing big, big boy things

[00:33:46] and I'm getting a job

[00:33:48] I'm getting a car

[00:33:49] I'm getting a house

[00:33:50] I'm doing ABCD

[00:33:51] and nobody have time

[00:33:52] for you know

[00:33:54] your stuff

[00:33:55] but then

[00:33:57] that stuff will rear

[00:33:58] it's ugly head

[00:33:59] at a moment's notice

[00:34:01] and if you're that worked

[00:34:02] in here

[00:34:03] you know

[00:34:04] you'd probably be like

[00:34:05] somebody come

[00:34:06] blah blah

[00:34:07] do you want water

[00:34:08] and you'd give him my water

[00:34:09] you'd be like

[00:34:10] you're going to move

[00:34:11] my dad's here

[00:34:12] and I'm here

[00:34:13] you know

[00:34:14] it happens

[00:34:15] it happens

[00:34:16] it'll happen when you're 50

[00:34:17] it'll happen

[00:34:18] so I think

[00:34:19] a couple of things

[00:34:20] one is

[00:34:21] I'll give you the colds notes first

[00:34:22] or the tattooed

[00:34:23] GPT version

[00:34:24] the free tattooed

[00:34:25] the free tattooed

[00:34:27] the free tattooed

[00:34:28] the free tattooed

[00:34:29] the free tattooed

[00:34:30] the first one is

[00:34:31] understanding

[00:34:32] there's

[00:34:33] certain things

[00:34:34] that's going to trigger you

[00:34:35] at certain times

[00:34:36] in your life

[00:34:37] and you know

[00:34:38] I think for a lot of us

[00:34:39] seeing what we see

[00:34:40] in the media right now

[00:34:41] has been triggering a whole lot

[00:34:42] of things for us

[00:34:43] over the last three months

[00:34:44] and it's extremely painful

[00:34:45] to witness that

[00:34:47] I remember all of October

[00:34:49] something in me

[00:34:50] I felt like

[00:34:52] there was this deep sense

[00:34:53] of pain

[00:34:54] and like loneliness

[00:34:55] and I couldn't stop crying

[00:34:56] and I used to just go

[00:34:58] to no frills

[00:34:59] to buy this bag

[00:35:00] and it was $2.50

[00:35:02] fries

[00:35:03] probably like the cheapest

[00:35:05] not even real potato

[00:35:07] obviously

[00:35:08] and I would go to my girlfriend

[00:35:09] cause she had a killer

[00:35:10] error fryer

[00:35:11] to make me feel better

[00:35:13] so it's not too Friday

[00:35:15] drive all the way

[00:35:16] to Miss Saga

[00:35:17] from Toronto

[00:35:18] and I'd be like girl

[00:35:20] turn up the error fryer

[00:35:22] I'm here to eat fries

[00:35:24] and we would

[00:35:26] be so

[00:35:28] I was like this is giving COVID, you know, but not, but this is awful, incredibly awful compared to that.

[00:35:34] But that sense of loneliness, isolation, pain, uncertainty, all of that kept coming back to that degree for me.

[00:35:41] And I was just like, I need those fries and I just wanted to spread the comfort.

[00:35:46] It's comfort, right? It's comfort and I just wanted to eat.

[00:35:50] And it was also cold. I just want something nice and crunchy.

[00:35:53] You're more nuts than it is not that deep.

[00:35:54] Okay.

[00:35:55] Okay.

[00:35:56] Because you put a burger in front of me, I eat that too.

[00:35:58] But it's just fries, you could eat an abundance for a good price, the fake fries.

[00:36:03] So the inner child will always be there.

[00:36:05] You're always going to be triggered.

[00:36:07] Okay? Something or the other will trigger you at some point in your life.

[00:36:10] So understanding that that's going to be there.

[00:36:12] The second thing is which most people don't realize your inner child, the best parent to your inner child is you, not your parents.

[00:36:21] Because what you want from your parents, and this is for me, you, and everybody listening in, they're likely not going to give it to you.

[00:36:29] Because what you want, there's a very high, I'd even say 99% chance.

[00:36:34] They don't even have it to give it to you.

[00:36:37] So how do you expect no matter how many conversations you have with them?

[00:36:41] They might try to understand, they might even get to level one, two, and three.

[00:36:45] But you're on a different league compared to them.

[00:36:48] They'll never get to the level 16 you're asking for, because your lifestyle has been very different.

[00:36:53] Your resources are very different.

[00:36:56] Why would they give you something like that when they have had never had any of that?

[00:37:01] How do we practice patience there?

[00:37:05] Because there's moments where growing up I've wanted more from my father.

[00:37:12] Yeah.

[00:37:13] But he couldn't give it to me because he didn't know how to, to your point.

[00:37:17] And I had to learn to seek it and source it elsewhere.

[00:37:21] And it was never, it was like, yeah, that's nice, but it's not my dad.

[00:37:27] Yeah.

[00:37:28] And there have been times where I've made really stupid decisions.

[00:37:32] And I'm like, if I just had, if my dad was able to just pull me aside and say, hey, Samir, don't do this.

[00:37:40] Or if you're going to do this, just think about A, B, and C.

[00:37:43] The things that I say to myself, but I wanted to come from my father.

[00:37:48] Samir, your dad's Lebanese.

[00:37:50] I know.

[00:37:51] You can have some real estate expectations.

[00:37:53] I know.

[00:37:54] He's not going to be like, don't do this. It's going to be a pow.

[00:37:56] Yeah.

[00:37:57] What's wrong with you?

[00:37:58] But it comes back to how do we, I guess maybe the question I'm asking is how do we forgive them for the things

[00:38:06] that they may not necessarily be at fault for, but that we blame them for.

[00:38:10] So I'm going to push back on that question because is it, well, first of all, to put a very cross.

[00:38:17] Why are you, why do they even need your forgiveness?

[00:38:20] Fair.

[00:38:21] Yeah.

[00:38:22] You're asking for something they don't have.

[00:38:24] So my question actually would be here.

[00:38:27] I'm on team Baba Samir for this one, which is, do you even have realistic expectations of him?

[00:38:37] Maybe I don't.

[00:38:38] Because if you don't, then he doesn't need your forgiveness.

[00:38:41] He'd be like, boy, sit down.

[00:38:43] See, it's funny when you say that and I think about that, I go, maybe I don't have realistic expectations, but then I'm like, but that's my dad.

[00:38:50] My expectations of him should be like because he's capable of.

[00:38:54] And that's the problem.

[00:38:55] Your hand is exactly what we all know of, and that's the problem.

[00:38:59] You put him on a pedestal.

[00:39:00] We all do because we're also taught that, right?

[00:39:02] They're your parents, you know.

[00:39:04] Super heroes.

[00:39:05] Yeah, exactly.

[00:39:06] And they are in many ways they are, but before they were your parents, their human beings and their deeply flawed.

[00:39:15] So perhaps your expectations of your parents were not realistic.

[00:39:19] And so when they're not realistic and you're asking for perfection from them, you're frankly dehumanizing them.

[00:39:26] Interesting.

[00:39:29] He's not perfect.

[00:39:30] Men went through a war.

[00:39:32] It's things that he's done and seen that you'll never see, which is a privilege because of what he did.

[00:39:38] Yeah.

[00:39:41] How do we break the generational curse?

[00:39:44] All the tough questions.

[00:39:46] Did you ask your friends to come together and say, give me all the questions.

[00:39:48] I need to know what you are.

[00:39:49] I need therapy.

[00:39:50] I got your answers coming next week at Poker Night.

[00:39:55] One of the best ways to do it is understanding that, hey, you know what?

[00:39:59] I can't get this from my father.

[00:40:02] Okay.

[00:40:03] No problem.

[00:40:04] Life is not perfect.

[00:40:06] I think my husband said this a long time ago and I was like, I was probably upset about honestly the dumbest shit ever.

[00:40:11] I don't even know.

[00:40:12] And he said, listen, Sarah, you live in a perfect world or realistic world.

[00:40:16] You figure it out.

[00:40:17] And I was like, I hate that he's right.

[00:40:20] And I love it.

[00:40:21] I'll never tell him that.

[00:40:22] Hopefully he doesn't like it as far as that episode.

[00:40:24] No, he's a great guy.

[00:40:26] I'll show love.

[00:40:27] Very thoughtful and very intuitive.

[00:40:29] And there's a lot in nuggets of wisdom I picked up from him.

[00:40:34] And that's one of them, which is you want to be in a realistic world?

[00:40:37] This is something you have to come to terms with.

[00:40:39] You know, you decide how you're going to do that.

[00:40:41] And I hold on to that all these years later because it's true.

[00:40:45] You want that from your father?

[00:40:46] Yeah, I had a perfect world in the next life.

[00:40:48] And show love.

[00:40:49] You know, but now you're not going to get it.

[00:40:52] How do you break that so it doesn't get past your next generation?

[00:40:55] Being mindful of that yourself, but also understanding that 100%

[00:40:59] you're going to drop the ball and other things.

[00:41:01] Okay.

[00:41:02] So then you realize that a lot of some of this is on you.

[00:41:09] You had to take it upon yourself.

[00:41:10] Yeah.

[00:41:11] And also, you know your parents have broken some generational curses.

[00:41:14] Of their own.

[00:41:15] Yeah.

[00:41:16] Things that their grandparents, your grandparents did to them.

[00:41:19] They're just probably like, well, never do this to our kids.

[00:41:21] You just don't know what those things are.

[00:41:23] Hmm.

[00:41:24] It's funny because I think all the time if I'm fortunate enough

[00:41:29] to have kids one day, the things that I wouldn't do and the things

[00:41:32] I would do.

[00:41:33] Yeah.

[00:41:34] And that's one thing that I see in my clients who are new parents,

[00:41:38] men, women, it doesn't matter.

[00:41:40] They try to overcompensate and overcorrect all of their traumas

[00:41:43] that they have not taken care of.

[00:41:45] Can we explore that a little more?

[00:41:47] Sure.

[00:41:48] How are they doing that?

[00:41:50] So for example, I'll give you, you know why I'll give you my sister's

[00:41:54] example on my niece.

[00:41:55] I don't have children.

[00:41:56] Elena's the only kid in my life who was around and she's like my child.

[00:42:00] My sister, oh god, there's like a therapy session about my sister.

[00:42:05] So my sister, perhaps growing up felt neglected in a certain type of way,

[00:42:10] which is weird because if you ask me between the three of us kids,

[00:42:13] that girl got the most attention.

[00:42:15] But you know what, that's a separate story for another day.

[00:42:18] Anytime my niece does something, she gets attention right away.

[00:42:24] If we're busy in doing something, my sister will be like hey,

[00:42:29] Elena's calling you, can you give her attention?

[00:42:31] So sorry, one moment.

[00:42:36] That's her overcorrecting and trying to make sure every emotional

[00:42:41] need of her child is met.

[00:42:43] Now, I don't know what happened.

[00:42:45] Obviously my sister has her version of what happened when she was growing up.

[00:42:48] But I do know is when I see something like that,

[00:42:51] I know she's trying to overcorrect.

[00:42:53] Sometimes it also looks like for parents, so just by their kids anything.

[00:42:57] That's how most people typically associate it is.

[00:43:01] Just get them what they want for them to stop crying,

[00:43:04] to stop yelling in the mall.

[00:43:07] It's a embarrassing right?

[00:43:09] Because I grew up in a household where my parents were yelling,

[00:43:13] my kids throwing a tantrum, I never want to see that because people are judging me.

[00:43:17] Because when I was a kid, they were judging my parents.

[00:43:20] They were judging me because of my parents.

[00:43:22] We were reflections of them and somehow how we behaved,

[00:43:26] meant that they raised us poorly.

[00:43:29] Yeah, it happens all the time.

[00:43:31] Kids actually bring out all of your insecurities.

[00:43:33] It's the worst.

[00:43:35] I don't have any, but I know I'm rolling my eyes like I have to.

[00:43:39] Okay.

[00:43:42] So the overcorrecting, how does that affect the kid?

[00:43:47] It's clear how it affects or why we're doing it.

[00:43:51] But on the receiving end of that overcorrectness,

[00:43:54] does that not create a sense of every desire is going to be met

[00:44:01] and as they get older, they're going to expect

[00:44:03] that the world will cater to them that way.

[00:44:05] Let me flip that question on to you.

[00:44:07] If your father always wanted to be a surgeon,

[00:44:11] and he couldn't because let's say his father passed away.

[00:44:14] So great student could have been a surgeon.

[00:44:18] Could have been a surgeon if he wanted to,

[00:44:20] but he couldn't.

[00:44:21] Life had a different story for him.

[00:44:22] He had to start working and so on.

[00:44:24] He's like, finally my son is born.

[00:44:26] My son's going to be a surgeon.

[00:44:28] And then everything he does to make sure Samira is put in the best schools

[00:44:31] of the best of everything and the best food, best brain food,

[00:44:35] best routine, best mental health, physical health

[00:44:38] because he's going to be a surgeon.

[00:44:40] Excuse me.

[00:44:41] Do you find that there's no problem with that?

[00:44:45] That he puts me in...

[00:44:48] Like he does all those things.

[00:44:49] Because he has an agenda, right?

[00:44:50] He wanted to be a surgeon.

[00:44:51] He couldn't.

[00:44:52] Now he's going to make sure his son is set up to be a surgeon.

[00:44:56] I mean, the obvious answer is if that's not what I wanted,

[00:44:58] then no, that's not good.

[00:45:00] You don't know anything, right?

[00:45:01] Because at that young age you're just like, no, this is the best thing ever

[00:45:03] because my dad's giving me all the attention and going to do all the things

[00:45:06] that bring me his attention, which includes the best grades.

[00:45:09] So let's say you do go ahead and get into the best schools

[00:45:11] and you do become a surgeon what happens after?

[00:45:14] I pursue a career that I might not be happy in.

[00:45:17] Yeah.

[00:45:18] Chances are you very likely not going to be happy in it

[00:45:20] because you haven't explored anything else.

[00:45:24] So then as the parent, how do you...

[00:45:27] Obviously there's a good intention there.

[00:45:29] Give them everything I didn't have.

[00:45:32] How do you ensure that you're not putting them in a restrictive box?

[00:45:37] Like this is what you're going to do.

[00:45:39] Yeah, it comes down to self-awareness, right?

[00:45:41] Which is, I understand I didn't have this, this, this.

[00:45:44] But is that going to be in the best interest of the child?

[00:45:46] May or may not be true because you grew up in a different time,

[00:45:50] different environment, different circumstances.

[00:45:52] A lot of us millennials...

[00:45:55] Not sure, I think you're a millennial.

[00:45:57] I'm going to go with that just because I feel better about it.

[00:46:00] A lot of us millennials, we want to buy a house.

[00:46:04] Yeah.

[00:46:05] Our parents are like by property, save money, save money by property.

[00:46:08] Just before coming in, got here early and I was looking at...

[00:46:11] I don't know why.

[00:46:13] I did it to like root my mood really.

[00:46:14] That's probably why I was so sweating when it came in

[00:46:16] because I was angry.

[00:46:17] I was livid looking at these prices and I was like this box for like 700,000 sit-out.

[00:46:22] On box in the sky.

[00:46:24] Awful, not even nice.

[00:46:26] You know, everything is...

[00:46:27] This is it.

[00:46:28] This was the apartment for 700,000.

[00:46:30] It's probably bigger.

[00:46:31] So when you're just like I need a house, I need a house because that's security for me.

[00:46:36] What they're realizing is am I able to get a house but I'm, you know,

[00:46:40] asset rich cash poor and I need cash for...

[00:46:43] Everything else?

[00:46:44] Literally, everything else.

[00:46:46] And we're not talking about luxury.

[00:46:47] We're just talking about basic groceries, go to a friend's birthday,

[00:46:51] go watch a movie, basic things.

[00:46:54] You know?

[00:46:55] And that's where we run into problems.

[00:46:56] So yes, they have the best of intentions.

[00:46:58] But the best of intentions doesn't mean it's the best for us.

[00:47:01] So checking yourself to see like is this even fair for me to talk to my kid about it?

[00:47:06] And what does that look like?

[00:47:09] I always imagine putting my hypothetical kids into like every sport.

[00:47:15] I grew up watching hockey.

[00:47:17] Yeah.

[00:47:18] I love hockey.

[00:47:19] There's things about hockey that I don't really like anymore these days.

[00:47:24] And then also the price of hockey.

[00:47:28] And I kept thinking to myself, okay well maybe I would start to put them into other sports as well.

[00:47:32] Yeah.

[00:47:33] Give them the option to choose what they enjoy.

[00:47:35] Yeah.

[00:47:36] And when I've spoken to athletes, they've talked about how the fact that their parents put them into multi-sports

[00:47:41] actually allowed them to love the sport that they excelled in.

[00:47:45] And imagine it's kind of the same approach, but to everything else in life.

[00:47:50] Yeah.

[00:47:51] So if you have a one track mind what you're doing is you're actually taking away the options that the kids have.

[00:47:55] You also have to study your children as though they are yes, they're a part of you,

[00:47:59] but they're also not in the sense that they might have likes and want to explore certain things

[00:48:04] that we're not going to be doing.

[00:48:07] My niece for example, Elena, that girl loves she was born twerking.

[00:48:10] I don't know how.

[00:48:11] I don't know how.

[00:48:12] Nobody's taught her a dance step like that.

[00:48:14] To the point where anytime she sees my dad, she doesn't like, you got to stop.

[00:48:19] Her six is still fine, you know, but like in two years girl, like stop.

[00:48:23] My mom, she's like no dance class, no music, her own this that she's going to go into the bad groups of people.

[00:48:30] And I was like mom relax, relax, okay?

[00:48:33] Like she's young whenever she's just having fun and I'm sure she does it because she gets a kick out of it.

[00:48:38] Yeah.

[00:48:39] She's got the reaction here, you know.

[00:48:41] So it's innocent.

[00:48:42] It's fine.

[00:48:43] But what you want to do is like, and none of us are like that.

[00:48:46] None of us mean my cousins, nobody I've grown up with has had any musical inclination.

[00:48:54] Frankly, I think my husband like the closest one he knows that a play guitar because he learned off of YouTube.

[00:48:59] When he didn't have, when he got fired and depressed at home for a couple of months.

[00:49:05] That's it.

[00:49:06] That was it, you know?

[00:49:07] And so I was like, what happened to this kid even on our dad side as well.

[00:49:12] But what you want to do is you would, you want to make sure you're not in that one track mind.

[00:49:15] And when you're not in that one track mind and you actually are trying to study your child going approaching from a place of curiosity.

[00:49:22] What's happening is you're like okay, you know what? Maybe I should put her.

[00:49:25] And I did tell her I told my sister I was like put her in dance classes if she's really interested in it because it helps build so much community.

[00:49:31] I was like make sure you put her in Bollywood dance classes.

[00:49:34] So she actually builds community with other South Asian kids.

[00:49:37] Yes, she could relate to.

[00:49:38] Yeah, you know, because they're like,

[00:49:40] like when you don't have that relational community, especially related like ancestral relational community.

[00:49:47] You feel there's a part of you that's disconnected, you know?

[00:49:51] And whether you're just like no but her tick and doesn't cut it for me, you know?

[00:49:56] And frankly if you ask me, it's not a real dish.

[00:49:58] But that's again another story for another day.

[00:50:02] But you do need that sense of community.

[00:50:04] And if you look at all the research where people have lived the longest, I don't know if you've watched Blue Zones on Netflix.

[00:50:09] No, whatever. Good things.

[00:50:10] One of the things that shows up in every single one, I didn't watch all of the episodes but I'm pretty sure I'm like 100% sure it's going to show up in every single episode.

[00:50:18] Every single region, it was community. They all had community.

[00:50:22] Even if diets weren't great, they all had community. Have you read the outliers?

[00:50:26] No.

[00:50:27] Okay, great book.

[00:50:28] That's also another thing they read. They were doing sorry in the book.

[00:50:33] They talked about doing research as to why certain community in a certain part of the world just lived so much longer.

[00:50:38] And they were like was it their food? Was it the fact that it was hilly?

[00:50:41] They were walking up in town? No, it was community.

[00:50:44] Matter of fact, they were actually overweight compared to the neighboring town.

[00:50:48] Lots. Yeah, but it was community.

[00:50:50] There is so much strength in community and that's why I said put her in Bollywood.

[00:50:53] But put her also in all the other dance classes that she likes as well because that way she can actually make a mix of friends.

[00:51:00] Like a diverse group of friends that she gets from every place.

[00:51:03] Is there community today fractured?

[00:51:06] Our broad community, not individual clusters of ethno communities.

[00:51:11] Yeah, just our broad community here in Canada.

[00:51:14] I think so.

[00:51:15] It feels fractured doesn't it?

[00:51:16] It is. It's very fractured.

[00:51:18] Especially coming out of the pandemic.

[00:51:19] I was just about to say and I saw it actually in the pandemic how lonely it is.

[00:51:23] And they say right like we are the loneliest generation.

[00:51:26] I'm more and more people are spending time indoors especially when you can do this for six hours and not realize.

[00:51:31] And then you live in the highlight reel of someone else's life.

[00:51:35] It's easy to get lost, it's easy to then feel more anxious and depressed.

[00:51:39] I feel like you haven't done anything with your life.

[00:51:42] Yeah, just watch an ethics for an hour.

[00:51:45] I mean I'm in that space every day.

[00:51:49] Yeah. And even I still feel like no matter how much I do it's not enough.

[00:51:54] I can't compare.

[00:51:56] And then there's imposter syndrome that creeps in and goes well, what are you doing?

[00:52:00] Yeah. No one's paying attention.

[00:52:02] And then I take a moment to realize now I'm looking for validation externally.

[00:52:07] How do I pull that back?

[00:52:09] And then when I sit with myself internally I go I'm not working hard enough.

[00:52:13] And then like that cycle just starts right again.

[00:52:17] So you're oscillating in the black and white, right?

[00:52:19] You want the validation externally just post a thirst drop?

[00:52:22] Yeah.

[00:52:23] Like Mr. GQ I see you.

[00:52:25] Everybody was looking good.

[00:52:27] I'll show a lot I have to say.

[00:52:29] But then the opposite side too when you pull back that you're just like well I didn't get enough likes and then

[00:52:34] but then the imposter syndrome kicked in or like do I look weird?

[00:52:37] You know, like got double chin.

[00:52:39] This is something you know everybody has a version of it right?

[00:52:41] I'm just like oh my god I got like four chin stuck under my jaw over here.

[00:52:44] I've gone to a point where I'm like whatever someone's gonna stick out from somewhere.

[00:52:47] I frankly don't care as long as my shirt which this is the most shocking part.

[00:52:51] I'm not gonna drop anything.

[00:52:52] I'm happy.

[00:52:53] Congrats.

[00:52:54] Everything else you know what it's all good.

[00:52:56] So it does you keep oscillating and that's actually the narrative that majority of people will tell you

[00:53:01] maybe they might not admit it to you maybe they need you know some liquid courage to actually spill it all out

[00:53:06] being like throw my life sucks.

[00:53:08] But that's where I would say huge majority of people sit.

[00:53:12] See I'm constantly on this journey of trying to be as authentic as I possibly can for myself.

[00:53:20] And so sometimes when I am creating the content I'm just like who cares?

[00:53:26] You know what I mean?

[00:53:28] Like who cares?

[00:53:29] Yeah.

[00:53:30] Like I'd rather be having an authentic genuine conversation with another human being right now.

[00:53:34] Yeah.

[00:53:35] And I feel that fractured that fracture between all of us is just magnified.

[00:53:41] And whether it's you know the pandemic that exasperated a problem that already existed

[00:53:49] and made it worse or coming out of the pandemic feeling like everything is normal

[00:53:54] and going about our days and distracting ourselves like we didn't just live through that for two and a half years

[00:53:59] and now topping on top of all of that how our communities are just fractured even further

[00:54:04] whether it's political beliefs religious beliefs policy but whatever anything.

[00:54:10] And I don't know how we get out of that.

[00:54:16] I still go back to the thing that I said I think it's tough to do that in North America.

[00:54:21] It really is.

[00:54:22] What does that mean?

[00:54:23] There's no hope here?

[00:54:24] Big question and you know I want to say I'm a sucker for it there's a word there's a saying in Urdu which says

[00:54:30] we meet the dunyagumti and that means like the world spends on hope.

[00:54:34] So I am hopeful, I am hopeful that people are going to be more aware of things.

[00:54:39] People are going to realize like how it actually takes a toll because it does take a toll on your body.

[00:54:44] You know I'm sure you feel it as well where when your head is caught in that specific

[00:54:49] mindset of like oscillating between well not good enough even worse even worse.

[00:54:54] You probably notice like you feel more tightness in the chest workouts might not be so good that day.

[00:55:00] Sometimes I find myself sitting in the gym for half an hour and I haven't lifted a weight.

[00:55:04] You're more bloated, you're more like it's just inside feel more inflamed.

[00:55:09] Funny enough a lot of people don't even know what that looks like.

[00:55:12] You know they don't realize oh wow that's bloating.

[00:55:15] I just thought I had a gut.

[00:55:16] I mean we all have a gut yeah but there's the difference between bloating and you know what a gut is.

[00:55:22] And so people don't realize that because they're not aware they don't pause to sit

[00:55:27] and reflect and think what is going on in my body.

[00:55:30] Wow I've been lactose intolerant all this time or I've been dairy intolerant all this time.

[00:55:35] I just thought this is how people live and when you're not pausing to stop and think how are you going to know?

[00:55:41] So I have like ten questions to go through and we're coming up on time so I'm going to ask you this one.

[00:55:52] What's the piece of advice you would give people?

[00:55:54] Listening to this, watching this, going I resonate with all of this.

[00:55:58] Yeah.

[00:55:59] I want to become more self-aware.

[00:56:00] I want to be able to sit with myself.

[00:56:02] Yeah.

[00:56:03] Get more in tune with my body.

[00:56:04] See how I'm actually feeling about my life, the things around me, the relationships, all of that.

[00:56:09] Yeah.

[00:56:10] I don't know where to start.

[00:56:11] I don't have the tools, I've never been equipped or taught how to even begin all of this.

[00:56:16] This is my first four-way into all of this and it's very intimidating.

[00:56:19] Yeah.

[00:56:20] How do I start?

[00:56:21] First thing I would say is get a specific book and you write down your questions and write in it.

[00:56:26] A lot of times people don't like that word because they're like, oh I'm not like that journal.

[00:56:32] Try telling a journal to a dude.

[00:56:35] I don't know.

[00:56:36] Okay, I journal.

[00:56:37] It's fantastic.

[00:56:38] There's not a lot of guys who do that like you or even try to have authentic conversations the way you do.

[00:56:44] You know, I'm sure in the space you'll notice that people have a certain type of front.

[00:56:50] Right?

[00:56:51] And it's just we do it.

[00:56:52] We mask.

[00:56:53] We all do it.

[00:56:54] So, sure.

[00:56:55] A journal or a book where you want to write down certain things.

[00:56:58] And the reason why you want to write down things is when you actually write, you're going to reflect more.

[00:57:01] Versus I'm just going to sit here and think because you know what else is happening in your brain?

[00:57:05] The 6,000 other thoughts that you've been thinking about.

[00:57:07] Maybe I should do this.

[00:57:08] Maybe I should invest in this.

[00:57:09] Maybe I should just move to the Vietnam life is cheaper there.

[00:57:12] Or maybe I should do this.

[00:57:13] This this this along with that plus your journal thoughts no, no, no, no too big of a mess.

[00:57:18] So, right?

[00:57:19] The question's down.

[00:57:20] And this is the thing I always tell everybody and you know my friend always makes fun of me.

[00:57:23] She's like, girl, maybe you should try to push your clinic by the way shout out to my clinic Lena Shamel's plug in here.

[00:57:29] She's like, why do you keep promoting chat GPT?

[00:57:32] They don't pay you nothing.

[00:57:33] And I'm like, you know what?

[00:57:34] Because AI is hot these days people love it.

[00:57:37] Sure use things that you easily access and you're there on those pages anyway.

[00:57:43] Google up or just go to chat GPT and type in.

[00:57:47] I want to become more self-aware.

[00:57:49] Where do I start?

[00:57:50] Simple as that.

[00:57:52] It's a great question to ask AI.

[00:57:54] How do I become self-aware AI?

[00:57:57] Yeah, yeah.

[00:57:58] Honestly and I'll give you a whole lot of things.

[00:58:01] And then you take those topics, paste them in and say well question should I ask myself?

[00:58:06] How can I understand my body better?

[00:58:08] You know, and so really reading and also reflecting on the content of like what's being asked of you.

[00:58:14] There's a lot of questions that are there as you said there's a wealth of information that's there online.

[00:58:18] It gets overwhelming because you're like who's right who's wrong?

[00:58:21] I don't know but that's okay.

[00:58:23] Just go on to chat GPT and ask these questions to start off with.

[00:58:26] Because it's chat GPT you will say, you know what?

[00:58:29] This is a journey blah blah blah.

[00:58:31] I'll give you its fluff but then in the middle I'll give you a couple questions to start off with.

[00:58:34] Especially when you haven't started off with everything or anything sorry.

[00:58:38] And you know, it's the exact same process that you would do if you're looking to start a podcast.

[00:58:43] What's the first thing you're going to do?

[00:58:45] So it's almost breaking it down into very simple steps.

[00:58:48] Smart goals always.

[00:58:50] Instead of trying to conquer this one big thing.

[00:58:54] Small little goals that you can...

[00:58:57] If you go to the gym, somebody who works out and you ask a trainer, listen I want to sign you up.

[00:59:02] Trainers going to be like what's your goal?

[00:59:04] You're going to say oh six months I want to have seven percent body fat.

[00:59:08] I want so on so in six months I want to have six pack.

[00:59:12] What's a trainer going to say?

[00:59:14] It's not going to happen overnight.

[00:59:16] It's not going to happen overnight.

[00:59:18] And it's only not just going to happen from working out.

[00:59:20] So even if you're working out.

[00:59:22] The diet is just sleeping habits as a stress, there's all those other things.

[00:59:26] A lot of other things.

[00:59:27] Plus also one thing that some trainers might not bring up with you is what is your genetic makeup look like?

[00:59:35] Because if you look at South Asian men for example and diabetes studies are done heavily on South Asian men.

[00:59:40] Their body types are certain a certain way.

[00:59:42] They actually hold their weight on their stomach.

[00:59:45] And if you look back go back to some generations ago South Asian body is actually experienced two famines.

[00:59:51] And what happened is the body actually trained to store its fat around the stomach region in case there's a new one coming up.

[00:59:57] Just to survive.

[00:59:59] So South Asian men generally speaking if you have any South Asian uncles, they've got a belly skinny legs.

[01:00:07] It's usually what happens.

[01:00:08] So that also plays a role.

[01:00:10] That's just that.

[01:00:11] Yeah, that also plays a role.

[01:00:13] So you can watch your diet, you can do this, you can do that, you can do that.

[01:00:16] But your genetic makeup is a certain type of way and it's not going to change.

[01:00:20] Which I think is kind of a nice point to remind yourself of when you feel like you've done all the other things right.

[01:00:30] And you still don't see that six back.

[01:00:32] Yeah.

[01:00:33] That sometimes there is a factor that's outside of your control.

[01:00:36] Yeah.

[01:00:37] You can't control what you eat, you can't control how many hours of sleep you get, how often you work out.

[01:00:42] Yeah.

[01:00:43] That's a conversation we have a lot with new moms who actually have gone through substantial changes in their bodies, hormonal changes.

[01:00:51] And you're not going to bounce back, it doesn't matter if Beyonce looked like that a month after...

[01:00:55] That's Beyonce.

[01:00:56] She got a whole lot of things we don't have, you know?

[01:00:59] It doesn't matter.

[01:01:00] You're not going to look like that period.

[01:01:02] It doesn't matter.

[01:01:03] What you do, if your physique was very tiny growing up, it doesn't matter.

[01:01:07] None of it matters.

[01:01:09] Because you're not being realistic of what your genetic makeup is.

[01:01:13] Your lifestyle changes, your hormonal changes which frankly you don't even know what's happening inside.

[01:01:18] The way things change in women's bodies.

[01:01:20] That's a very interesting conversation that I think we need to do a part two on.

[01:01:23] Because I'm also very curious about what role men can play to support their partners better.

[01:01:30] Oh, I got a lot of say.

[01:01:32] Yeah.

[01:01:33] So that's definitely a part two.

[01:01:35] Sarah, thank you so much.

[01:01:36] This was wonderful.

[01:01:37] The time flew by, unfortunately.

[01:01:40] But learn a ton.

[01:01:42] I think you do incredible work.

[01:01:44] I think it's super important work.

[01:01:46] I am glad that you offer people a sense of comfort.

[01:01:49] That they feel that there is a place that they can go to in a person that they can speak to that understands them.

[01:01:55] I don't know what the word is.

[01:01:57] It inherently understands them better.

[01:01:59] I think that's very important.

[01:02:01] And I commend you on all of that.

[01:02:03] Please continue.

[01:02:04] Thank you.

[01:02:05] You're so kind.

[01:02:06] Thank you so much.

[01:02:07] And the kids call it Bipechek.

[01:02:08] She passes the Bipechek.

[01:02:09] You pass the Bipechek.

[01:02:10] Thank you so much.

[01:02:11] Thank you everybody for listening.