Making Money on Social Media, Andrew Tate & Men's Mental Health: Pushpek Sidhu | Ep.112 - Gent's Talk

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_02]: We paid one influencer $60,000 to post one video.

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Pushpek Sidhu is a popular digital creator known for his viral videos and a strong following across multiple platforms.

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_04]: What's your current total audience across all your channels?

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Close to 4 million.

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to hit 100,000.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: What's a little secret or trick there?

[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So the first 100k took me like f***.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_02]: You have to be consistent.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_02]: You have to be comfortable.

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Can't just post anything.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Is social media evil?

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_04]: When you see an Andrew Tate post and then you see those comment sections saying this is what men should be like.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Does that upset you?

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_02]: As a guy, it's not easy to share things, especially when you've been taught your entire life to never share your feelings.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't cry.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't show emotions.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's hard to make that switch.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_02]: If somebody says man up, what it should really mean should be like

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_04]: So most of the time I'm just like you know what?

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_04]: It's great because I come in.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Space is already set up.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_04]: We're good.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_04]: We're good.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_04]: All right, start rolling.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_04]: But on that note Pushpek, welcome to Jen's talk.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm excited to have this conversation with you.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I piqued your socials.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of humor in there.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And we were talking before we started rolling.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_04]: You wake up at 12 daily.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's because your audience is primarily global, like all over the place.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And you've sort of cat and like you go to bed what time?

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You said?

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Usually around 4 a.m.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_04]: So are you functional at 2, 3, 4 a.m.?

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Or are you just like you're ready to knock out?

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_02]: At like 2, 3 a.m.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like editing my content, posting it.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Geez.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Is that something you've always done or just because of the nature of the audience of your social accounts?

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it all started during COVID when

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_02]: well, I used to work as a personal trainer at the gym

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and all the gyms shut down during COVID.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was just playing Call of Duty with my friends and we were all staying up until

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah exactly.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Warzone.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_02]: We were staying up until like 3, 4 a.m.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I think that kind of became a habit.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And then the fact that my wife that was my girlfriend at the time

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: lived in California which was three hours behind.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of got used to having a delay time.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And then as I started making content

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I realized my audience is global and posting at like 2, 3 a.m.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: worked a lot better for me than posting in the evening.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you remember those initial days of the pandemic when we were completely locked down

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_04]: and you'd pull all-nighters playing Warzone just trying to get one dub

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_04]: and then going to bed when the sun came up sleeping for a few hours getting back up

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_04]: and then calling the boys and saying let's run it back.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Those were the days right?

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Those were amazing.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Those were amazing days.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of I realize there's a lot a lot of gamers a lot of guys who used to be gamers as kids

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_04]: stopped playing games because they were told that it was bad for them

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_04]: that picked it back up myself included during the pandemic.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And now it's a form of social outlet.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I hang out with my friends virtually doing that sometimes when I know I can't see them in person

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_04]: and it's just like it's such a mental reprieve.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_04]: So you get to let loose and de-stress and stuff like that.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a great way because you don't have to go anywhere.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You're just staying at home doing it.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I played a lot of video games growing up,

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_02]: but eventually my dad just sold my Xbox without telling me.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_04]: How did that conversation go?

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_02]: That wasn't a conversation.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't a choice.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_02]: They just come home from school one day.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Dad sold the Xbox told me to start playing outside.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Not that played a lot of Xbox to be honest,

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_02]: but yeah, so it was fun to be able to go back and play video games.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: When you finally become an adult, you can buy your own Xbox do whatever you want.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, it was a fun time playing Warzone with my friends.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_04]: So when your dad sold the Xbox and told you like go play outside as an adult now,

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_04]: do you see the value in that decision?

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_04]: No, maybe not the way it was executed.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_04]: But do you understand?

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you see the value in the way and why he may have said that?

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I completely understand why he did it.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Was it the right way of doing it?

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_02]: No, definitely not.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I was already a child that played sports, hung out outside,

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_02]: always wanted to be outside with my friends.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I played Xbox when I had nothing to do.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_02]: But it was also a great outlet for me to let off steam as a kid.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_02]: There was a lot of things going on

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and it was nice having something to do, something to take my mind off things.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And when dad took that away, that kind of stung a bit.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Did you ever have the conversation with him since?

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I've told him a few times.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_02]: What has he said?

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he's still a little stubborn about it.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_02]: He still believed he probably saved my life or something

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_02]: by getting rid of the Xbox and making me play outside.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I just switched to a computer and started playing on a computer instead.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. So it worked out one way or the other?

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. How's your relationship with your dad?

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_02]: It's amazing.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: It's really good.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously there's been ups and downs, right?

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Growing up with an immigrant father isn't always easy

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_02]: and we also have an age gap of almost 40 years.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_02]: 40?

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have siblings?

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I have one sibling, a sister, only two years older though.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_02]: You paused and you thought about it for a second.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, usually people expect me to have like an older sibling that's like 10, 50 years.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's why I was asking.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. So 40 years is a large, even with your sister, it's 38 years.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So they just got married.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_02]: My parents got married pretty late.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Had us pretty late, but we have a massive generation gap.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And although my parents are modern for their age,

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_02]: sometimes you do feel that generation gap and you can really

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_02]: tell that they're almost like grandparents more than parents.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you ever struggle with that?

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, when you grow up, like when I hit 15, 16

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and see my dad being close to his 60s, you start getting worried.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_02]: You'll be like, I have to start making money.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I have to start helping the family out.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't have the same amount of time that most people do to like

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_02]: grow up and take their time in school.

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I had to start working early.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I had my own dreams too, where like I want to go to school longer,

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe become a doctor or something, which my parents would have loved because they're Indian.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, it was also like,

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_02]: if I wait until I become a doctor, maybe I finished school by 30.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Dude, my dad's going to be 70 something at that time.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_02]: That's too late for me to start helping out.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_04]: So you made that decision based on what's the fastest route to helping out financially?

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Did you want to be a doctor?

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, some kind of like doctor or physiotherapist or something.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I did think about going back to school.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I study more, but I felt like I didn't have time for it.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And I also wanted to put more of an effort into sports.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, sports can be expensive.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_02]: In Canada especially.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And it just felt like, you know what?

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I probably need to stop all this stuff and just start working.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_04]: So walk me through how did your parents react to going from,

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, you said you were a personal trainer.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_04]: You had ideas of going to medical school to making TikToks.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Not to diminish the concept of making TikToks,

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_04]: but when you think about it in hindsight, you go,

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm either going to pursue this traditional supposedly stable career path

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_04]: or I'm going to make videos online and hope that people watch it.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I can somehow turn this into an actual job.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_04]: How did that process happen?

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_04]: What was your parents' reactions to all of that?

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And maybe what is their reaction to it today

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_04]: now that you've seen the success that you've seen?

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_02]: My parents liked it right away, especially dad.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_02]: He has a history of being in drama school and doing theater in India.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So for him, it was something.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: He always wanted me to go into film or acting or something.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was always against it.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is probably closest thing.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_04]: He wanted you to go into it?

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, when I was a kid.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh no way.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And you were against it.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But now I'm kind of getting closer to it

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: or at least going in that direction.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's loving that.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But when he came to doing this as a career,

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_02]: it was a tough decision to make.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But with all the gyms shut down during COVID,

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I had to make money from somewhere.

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Started making a few videos.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: We started blowing up and then I started thinking,

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, maybe just maybe I should start working in this field.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I got a job as a social media manager.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I switched positions a few times, different corporations,

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_02]: but eventually worked my way up the ladder a little bit.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And I learned a lot about marketing.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And I had a full-time salary job while I was growing my social medias.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_02]: To a point where just a few months ago,

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I stopped working and I'm now full-time in social media.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But I waited for that.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I waited until I was making enough money to sustain my lifestyle

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_02]: with just social media before I start working in corporate.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_04]: So for anyone listening or watching who

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_04]: is interested in pursuing the social media path,

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I think there was an interesting little tidbit in there that you said

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_04]: where you waited until you can actually replace your income

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_04]: with social media income,

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_04]: which means you treated your social media stuff as a side hustle

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_04]: until you got to that point where it could become full-time.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I've encountered a lot of creators, especially recently,

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_04]: who have, how do I put this?

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_04]: They've fallen into the trap of believing that

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_04]: they'll make it on social media no matter what.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_04]: They just have to keep posting content

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_04]: and they kind of take that leap a little too early

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_04]: and then they find themselves struggling

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_04]: because they're not getting the contracts or the deals

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_04]: or the brand deals.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And so then they pull back

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_04]: and now they have to go find another job again.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_04]: What advice would you give those creators

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_04]: who are thinking about making the leap into full-time creation

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_04]: but are a little bit hesitant

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_04]: or the ones who are about to do it,

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_04]: they're going to do it no matter what?

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_04]: What would you say to these people?

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_02]: The thing is, having a job or something like that

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_02]: can also hold you back.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It held me back from going to LA and places like that

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and collaborating with people.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time,

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_02]: you can go and collaborate with people in LA

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_02]: but then you have to come home.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Then you have to go and pay the bills, right?

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Which isn't the easiest thing to do with social media

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_02]: because some months you'll make a lot of money.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Other months you'll make nothing, right?

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Here in Canada, social media doesn't pay the best.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_02]: If you're in the US, it's a completely different story.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_02]: But my advice would be to hold on to your job

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_02]: as long as you can while it's not holding you back from growing.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And that too, with my job,

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_02]: as I start growing within marketing,

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I specifically started looking for remote jobs

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_02]: or jobs where I'll have more time to work on my own content too

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_02]: at the same time.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And I also picked jobs specifically that gave me skills

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_02]: that will help me, right?

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_02]: When I was a social media manager,

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I was running influencer campaigns from the other side.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So I kind of learned the other side of the business

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_02]: which is now really helpful for me

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_02]: when I need to land my own brand deals.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So what's a little secret or a trick there?

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Someone looking to bring on a brand deal,

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_04]: they're starting out in this space.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_04]: One, how do you grow an account?

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's the biggest thing.

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I think everyone is curious.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_04]: How do you grow your following?

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_04]: How do you grow, I think more importantly,

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_04]: because we see some accounts that have big followings

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_04]: but they've got no community.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_04]: How do you build a community?

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_04]: People who are actually there for you,

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_04]: who want to follow you, engage with you,

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_04]: they want to get to know you.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_04]: How do you cultivate something like that?

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: You got to be consistent, right?

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Consistency is a big key.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I've been making a video almost every day since COVID.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_02]: That's thousands of videos.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot of videos.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to do it that much,

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_02]: but that's the reason I have a community

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_02]: because every day they're waiting

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_02]: for the next video to come up.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just a part of their daily life

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_02]: to see one of my videos pop up on their feed.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_02]: That consistency is huge with building community

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_02]: because they kind of expect something.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_02]: YouTubers used to do that a lot where they're like,

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, I'm going to post two videos a week,

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Monday and Thursday.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So every Monday and Thursday,

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_02]: their community waits for that video to come out.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was a huge key

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and it also helps a lot with growing, of course.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And then you also need to look

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_02]: at what your audience wants.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I built recently,

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of my audience have grown

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_02]: from me making food-related content.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_02]: If tomorrow I just completely stop making food content,

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not respecting why they came to me,

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_02]: why they started appreciating my content.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you find that limit to you though?

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_02]: It does.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It does.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_04]: There's more to your personality

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_04]: than the food that you consume.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_02]: No, for sure.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes I do make content like I used to,

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_02]: any other different topic

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'll see comments being like,

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_02]: stick to food videos,

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_02]: stick to what you know.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_02]: But dude,

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I just started making food videos like six months ago.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Does that upset you?

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_02]: No, you build tough skin on social media, right?

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Especially in the beginning,

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: everyone hates on you,

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_02]: your friends hate on you,

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_02]: community hates on you.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody really wants to support you,

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: everyone just thinks you're cringe.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So you start building tougher skin

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and then as you grow,

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_02]: you realize you built that own community

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_02]: and now if somebody drops a hate comment

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_02]: somewhere under my videos,

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_02]: some other 13, 12, 10-year-old kids

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_02]: are just going to start spamming them

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_02]: and defending me.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So you build your own little community army

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_02]: that just sits there and defends you all the time.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's not something that bothers me anymore.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_04]: But at the beginning,

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_04]: when you talk about those moments

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_04]: where you post the video that you work so hard on,

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_04]: your friends wouldn't support you,

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_04]: they called you cringe,

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_04]: your videos wouldn't do as well

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_04]: as you'd hoped for them to do.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of negativity that comes out of that.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of negative self-talk

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_04]: that comes out of that.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Why am I even doing this?

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_04]: This video sucks, nobody likes it,

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_04]: my friends don't even like it.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_04]: What was that like?

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it does get to you sometimes.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes you're just sitting there and be like,

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_02]: dude, what am I doing?

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_02]: This is just embarrassing.

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Your confidence starts dropping.

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But that's the thing,

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_02]: if you work on your own self-confidence,

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_02]: nothing's going to bother you.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody's going to bother you.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_02]: How do you do that?

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_02]: How did you do that?

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, one thing that a lot of men will start doing

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_02]: is working out.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_02]: That does build confidence

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and being a personal trainer for those five years

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_02]: did help my confidence a lot.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I was never a big, huge guy,

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_02]: but just being fit, being healthy-

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Being fit is I think the most important part of it all.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And being healthy was a huge deal for me.

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Being in a secure, good relationship

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_02]: was also really helpful

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_02]: because I'm not there looking for anyone,

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_02]: looking for things,

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_02]: looking to impress anyone

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_02]: because I already have somebody with me.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And the fact that my wife,

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_02]: who was my girlfriend at the time,

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_02]: was so supportive of this

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_02]: was really, really helpful.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_02]: The one most important person in your life

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_02]: is supporting you.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So then friends or extended friends

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_02]: or people that you used to know in high school

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: won't really bother you.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm sitting in front of you saying,

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to start a channel.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to grow it.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to become-

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_04]: What's your current total audience

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_04]: across all your channels?

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_04]: What's the number?

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's about three and a half,

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_02]: close to four million.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll take like a hundred thousand of those.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_04]: That's it.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_04]: But I'm sitting in front of you.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to start a channel.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to do all these things.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to grow.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to hit a hundred thousand.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Forget three, four million, a hundred thousand.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_04]: What do I need to do?

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_04]: What's the first step?

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll start making content.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Get a camera in front of you.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Get comfortable with yourself.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_02]: The first hundred K is the hardest to grow.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_02]: On Instagram, I probably hit a hundred K

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_02]: last summer and now I hit a million.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So the growth, the curve is almost like

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_02]: what do you call it?

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Exponential.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So the first hundred K took me three years to get.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I never had that moment where some people just blow up.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_02]: They just become hype and they just blow up like crazy.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_02]: They go off on TikTok and all of a sudden you see somebody

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_02]: with like 20 K followers get to five million in like three,

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_02]: four weeks.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_02]: They just have crazy growth.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I never had that happen to me,

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: but I got close to it in the last few months when I started

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: making food content where stuff just started blowing up

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and I started growing a lot on YouTube and Instagram.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_02]: But to grow your first hundred, you have to be consistent.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You have to be comfortable.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_02]: In my first videos, I used to hate my voice.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_02]: It sounded so weird because I never heard my voice before.

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But now it's like second nature to me.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Looking at your face from a different angle,

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_02]: like whether it's a mirrored camera or non-mirrored,

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_02]: it feels weird when you're not used to it.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_02]: So you need to get comfortable with things like that.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And then just again, consistency is key.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You need quality content of course.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't just post anything,

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_02]: but you also need to know who you're entertaining

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_02]: because it is entertainment at the end.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Whether it's like you're talking about politics,

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_02]: you still entertain people that want to know more

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_02]: about politics.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_02]: If it's about food, you're just pleasing people

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_02]: who maybe just want to hear or see food.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: It's weird, but it's all entertainment.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_04]: So entertainment, like entertaining the audience

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_04]: ultimately is the key to keeping your content growing

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_04]: and viral and keeping the eyeballs on it,

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_04]: which is pretty much like anything.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_04]: A movie, a film, a television show, whatever.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Is it true that you have to be in a specific niche to grow?

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Because one of the challenges,

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_04]: at least that I've encountered personally,

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_04]: has always been I'm not one-dimensional.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I have a very complex personality like we all do.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And I like so many different things.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And I want to talk about all of these things.

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_04]: But to a point that you made earlier,

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_04]: you started making food content.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And now when you try to branch out,

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_04]: people say to you stick to the food content.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you actually grow an account with multiple interests

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_04]: or do you have to zero in on a niche and then expand?

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't believe in the whole niche thing.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Especially when you start to grow,

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_02]: you'll always see these videos come up with

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: these are the tips.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_02]: This is how to grow.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_02]: This is how to do whatever.

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And they will always talk about niche.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_02]: If you have like 10K followers and you focus on a niche,

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_02]: you're not going to grow much.

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Because you're just limiting yourself.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_02]: When you talk about everything,

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_02]: something is going to work well.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You can figure out what works well

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and just focus a little bit more over that to grow.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_02]: But I mean at the end of the day,

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_02]: most people that follow me do not follow me for food.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_02]: They follow me for me.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Whether that's my personality or that just how I joke

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_02]: or they just find me funny in general.

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: People might not love when I make non-food related content,

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_02]: but it still does well on social media.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_02]: There are just a few people hating on it,

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_02]: but there's 30 times more people enjoying it.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you make a good living off social media?

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we definitely can.

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_04]: What's a good living?

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_04]: You don't have to get into specifics, by the way.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_04]: But just general, what could a deal look like?

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean it depends.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of times small businesses will reach out to you.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_02]: They don't have budgets.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_02]: They don't know anything about marketing.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_02]: They probably just hired an agency or something for marketing

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_02]: or just hired one little college intern

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_02]: or high school girl or something to run their marketing.

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe it's a family member.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's hard to charge people like that a lot.

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, you got to charge them something

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_02]: because you have to value yourself.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And when you come from an immigrant background,

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_02]: people of the same background will not take you as seriously.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_02]: They'll want free stuff.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I literally got a message today about hosting a big event.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is televised and we'll probably have a few million people watching it without paying.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So things like that happen.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm not taking it.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Would the value of hosting a televised event

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_04]: with potentially millions of people outweigh getting paid?

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'll get those views on social media anyways.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So I can reach that many people regardless.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So why would I do that for free?

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Hosting something for a few hours is a pretty big deal.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_02]: It's work.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_04]: It's quite intensive.

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I wouldn't do something like that for free.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Now if you ask me to host an event where Drake's popping up or something,

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_02]: that's a different story.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_02]: There's an added value to something like that.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So I do look at things like that.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But when it comes to big brands,

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_02]: what I've learned from working at the other end of the whole social media business,

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_02]: ask for a lot.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Because a lot of these brands have money.

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_02]: The last company that I worked for before I quit my job,

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_02]: we paid one influencer $60,000 to post one video.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_04]: How many followers does that influencer have?

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, across social media, 7-8 million maybe.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Does the size of the following matter as much these days or is it the engagement?

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_04]: It's both.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_02]: You'll see some people that have millions of followers,

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_02]: but their videos are not even getting 20-30k views.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But then you see somebody, even when I was growing,

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_02]: when I had 100k followers, I was still getting 2, 3, 400k

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_02]: views on every single video consistently on Instagram.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: That's something I look for in other creators.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_02]: When I used to look for people to work with,

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: look for people to give brand deals,

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I would look for people that got a lot of views,

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_02]: got a lot of engagement with small amount of followers

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: because they were cheaper too.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But I would always, whenever I found small creators,

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I would always overpay them

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_02]: because I knew how much work it was from the other end.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_02]: That's nice of you.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And I knew the business had a lot of money.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_02]: As long as I get the results, it doesn't matter how much money I spend.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_04]: So is there a platform that's, if you're starting from scratch,

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_04]: is there a platform that's better to start on?

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_04]: TikTok, Instagram, YouTube Shorts?

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I would say TikTok.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_02]: YouTube Shorts has been amazing.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_02]: That's been a big driver of my growth.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_02]: But do you remember Vine?

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_02]: When that first came, I wanted to make videos on it,

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_02]: but I was still shy.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I was maybe 15, 16 something at that time.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And right when I downloaded it,

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_02]: they got bought out and shut down.

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Two days later, I'm like, oh well.

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So much for that.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So then I waited.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I want to know what the next thing is going to be.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And Musically showed up.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_02]: TikTok showed up.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Musically was TikTok before it was called TikTok.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And I wasn't downloading it.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want it.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, this is cringe.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_02]: This is weird.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Even though I was telling myself what's the next big thing?

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I need to find the next big thing.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was actually my wife that got me on it.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And somebody reached out to her.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_02]: She had a friend that reached out to her.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Be like, okay, we're trying to get people on TikTok.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_02]: We pay people to post as many videos in a month.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It was pocket change, but I mean, I'll take it.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I was used all the time too.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I'll take it.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I did it.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_02]: You got some clout.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It felt good.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And you just kept posting.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's crazy that my wife actually got me to start doing this stuff.

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I was never going to make social media content.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I was just going to do my own fitness thing, maybe open a gym or something.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I just took a complete U-turn.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Are you still based out of Toronto?

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_04]: So you said your wife's based out of was in California.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_04]: She's a psychotherapist.

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_04]: What's it like being married to a psychotherapist?

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Does every conversation feel like you're being

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_04]: therapized?

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, not really.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Not really.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I always wanted to ask that.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I always had an open mind.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: The thing is too, I started dating her when she was learning it.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I started dating her when she started her masters,

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: when she just decided, you know, maybe I'm going to be a therapist.

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So I saw her growth and I think I grew with her because she learned things,

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: shared them with me.

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So it wasn't like she shows up in my life and starts correcting everything I do.

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't like that.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_02]: People would imagine it might have been like that, but it wasn't.

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I learned a lot from her.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I was always very open as a person to learning things.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: But she helped me grow a lot.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_02]: She made me a better human being.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_02]: My relationships with everyone, my dad, my mom, my family,

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: my friends became better because of her.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Just because she made me a better person.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_04]: So having the benefits of being married to or like your closest person on the planet

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_04]: is by trade, a therapist.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_04]: You learn better ways of communication.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_04]: You learn the importance of opening up and

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_04]: working through your emotions, right?

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Not just bottling them up like most guys do.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_04]: There's going to be guys in your audience who will hear this and go,

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_04]: that's not the definition of a man.

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_04]: A man doesn't talk about his emotions.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_04]: He doesn't share his emotions.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_04]: He doesn't cry or show weakness or anything like that because then you're not a man.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_04]: What do you say to those guys?

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they say men don't show their emotions.

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Those are the same people that if I asked them what a man is supposed to be like,

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: they're supposed to raise a good family.

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_02]: They're supposed to be the head of the family.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_02]: How are you going to be the head of the family if you can't show your family the right way?

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_02]: How are you going to take care of a family if you can't listen to your kids' own emotions?

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_02]: It's more than just making money.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Being the leader of your family is more than just providing for your family.

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Providing financially.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_02]: You need to provide to them mentally too.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Once you start opening up, you just realize how much better your life becomes.

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_02]: How much better your relationships become.

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's hard to tell somebody.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of us guys, we grew up and you just kept getting it like people just shove it down your

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_02]: throat that you can't cry. You can't show emotions.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_02]: We become very stern and emotionless and it's hard to make that switch and open up.

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It's helpful when you find somebody that can help you do that.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_02]: If you do it alone, it's not going to be easy because you're going to go to your boys,

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_02]: share something, but they're the same as you.

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_02]: They don't want to hear that.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to be like, get over it or man up.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a big one.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know what that means anymore.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_04]: People say it's just like, what do you want me to do?

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not just going to go to the gym and work off my emotions.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Somebody hurt me.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not just going to go to the gym and start working out.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like that definition of man up should change.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_04]: What would you say then?

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_02]: What would you place it with?

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_02]: If somebody says,

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_02]: man up, what it should really mean should be open up.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Start thinking about what you're doing, what's going on.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Feel your feelings, feel your emotions.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: We humans can get angry because it's a natural emotion to feel angry about something.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's also a natural emotion to feel sad, to cry.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_02]: If you ever cry and you have a long big cry, you feel amazing afterwards.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_02]: You really do.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_02]: It really gets rid of so much stress and you realize why some women cry because dude,

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_02]: it helps.

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Feels good.

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But if you hold that in, we just learn to channel that into anger as men.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think a lot of guys struggle with this notion because they think that you're

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_04]: going to walk around crying to everybody.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's not the case.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_04]: It's do it in your own privacy of your home or with someone that you trust and you care

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_04]: about who will not judge you and will care for you and just get rid of those emotions.

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Work through them, feel them, move on.

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_04]: You become actually, you become a stronger man in that way.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_04]: You become the version of the man that you're saying you should be by doing those things.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_02]: A person that can handle their emotions and can let them out and know when to let them

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_02]: out, where to let them out is way stronger than somebody that just channels everything

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_02]: into anger because they bottle everything up.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean anger, firstly, anger is an emotion.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And we get these, when you talk about hate comments, we get a lot of comments like that

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_04]: too where guys will say you're creating a generation of weak men.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_04]: You're encouraging weak men.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And I try not to engage with them in the comments because I mean you know this,

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_04]: it's a useless exercise.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not going to go anywhere.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_04]: But every so often I try to poke a little bit and I just go explain to me why you

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_04]: think that is.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And oftentimes I have not yet encountered an argument because I'm open to it.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_04]: If there's an argument out there for why this approach is wrong, I want to hear it.

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And so far every argument I've heard has failed to convince me or anyone for that

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_04]: matter that that's the best approach.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I did a podcast where I was the guest and we were talking about Middle Eastern

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_04]: men.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm from Lebanon.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_04]: We're talking about Middle Eastern men and how Middle Eastern men are typically

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_04]: raised to be strong but silent.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And oftentimes they grow up into very aggressive men who shout and yell and

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_04]: are physical and have no control over their emotions.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And in the comments, other Arab men would reflect about what would talk

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_04]: about how I'm the definition of a weak man.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm a feminine man.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_04]: No other men should hear this.

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a reason I'm in Canada and not still in the Middle East.

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_04]: There's some stupidness like that.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And then in the same comment section were a bunch of women saying it's so

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_04]: refreshing to hear a Middle Eastern man speak this way because this is what

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_04]: we want.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And you can see the contrast between what men are thinking and what women

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_04]: are thinking.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_04]: The men are thinking that if they stay strong and silent, the women will

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_04]: find them attractive.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_04]: The women are simply saying that's not the case at all.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Right?

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_04]: At a distance, this might look nice.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_04]: But up close and personal, it's quite ugly to look at.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_02]: The thing is change is uncomfortable.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_02]: 100%.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And these men that know they need to change like somewhere deep inside,

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_02]: they know they need to change.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Because things in their life is not working out great.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe their wife doesn't don't love them because how aggressive they are.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they're not getting along with their parents or something, something.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Their job.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the pandemic made all that worse.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And it makes them uncomfortable because they see somebody else who has made

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_02]: that change.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And it makes them think about maybe they should change too.

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_02]: It makes them uncomfortable to get defensive and then they feel need to

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_02]: comment.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Because as like if I see a video that I feel uncomfortable, why do I

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_02]: need to comment on it?

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_02]: The only reason I'm going to comment is because I get defensive.

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It bothers me.

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_02]: It gets me really uncomfortable.

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, why would I comment anything negative about somebody else's

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_02]: video?

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't affect my life in any way.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_02]: But a lot of people worry that like if all the men around me starts

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_02]: changing, I have to change too.

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Whether it's for the better or the worse.

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And they're not ready for it.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_02]: They're not ready to have that conversation.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, it's a step in the right direction.

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_02]: The fact that your video is popping up on their feed.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It gets people thinking.

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It takes time.

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, when I was younger, I wasn't the best man I could be.

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty sure I was a little more aggressive.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I was I wasn't feeling my emotions the way I should be.

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you think that is?

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, because that's how we grow up.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I grew up in Punjabi family.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Similar to you.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_02]: We grew up to be men like all stereotypically manly men.

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_02]: They work hard for their family.

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Like we come from a history of farmers.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Like we were the ones providing for the family.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: We used to work hard and we didn't have time to share emotions.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't have like I mean, my grandparents and their ancestors did not have the luxury

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_02]: of sharing their emotions.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Because they have to go and work the next day.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_02]: They have to go pull 14 hours in a farm without any equipment.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Like any mechanical equipment to help you.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So people learned to bottle that up and what a lot of our people did, they started

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: bottling things up with alcohol.

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_02]: They started resorting to alcohol because they can't share their emotions with anyone.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's just drink.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_04]: So let's numb the pain.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And for me, I have never understood how somebody can drink alone sitting alone,

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_02]: drink like completely alone and get drunk without anyone there.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Because when I drink, I would just have a few drinks with my friends to have fun.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't need it to have fun, but sometimes I will.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But people will get drunk on their own, just sitting in the garage at home

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_02]: because they can't share their emotions.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_02]: What kind of life is that?

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that a manly thing to do?

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Because those people are not there for their kids.

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Those kids are going to grow up hating their dad.

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And if they have a son, he's either going to end up being a great kid who loves his own kids

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_02]: or he's going to go the same route because he didn't have a father figure.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And he might resort to alcohol too because he has also pain.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And if he sees, okay, that's what works for my dad, maybe it'll work for me too.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_02]: But if all that father did was share his emotions with his kids, with his family,

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_02]: learn how to regulate, learn how to feel his feelings,

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_02]: that family would not be destroyed by alcohol.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And it happens a lot in our community.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I see it all the time.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Families just getting destroyed by one dad who just starts drinking too much.

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And again, I know there's a lot of pain involved.

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't blame the dad because he didn't learn anything from his own dad.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_02]: It's generational.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a cycle that just continues.

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_02]: But when they say, our generation is weak, man, dude, we're the strongest men

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_02]: because we're breaking those cycles.

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Breaking that cycle is harder than anything else.

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So if anything, they can call us feminine, they can call us whatever they want.

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_02]: We're way stronger than they were because the stuff we have to deal with is just different.

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Breaking the cycle is not easy.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_02]: We're lucky though.

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_02]: We're lucky.

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_02]: We have information.

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_02]: They didn't have information on the side.

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_02]: They didn't have internet.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_02]: We can, like you said, play Warzone and get support for a friend

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_02]: who's in a different country.

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Just playing Warzone with them online.

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_02]: They couldn't do anything.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they could call somebody but...

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_02]: They have to get a calling card or...

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_04]: So you have this massive platform.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And the way you speak so eloquently about modern masculinity

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_04]: and how we're actually stronger men, which I love by the way.

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Have you ever used your platform to try to spread that kind of messaging and awareness?

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_04]: To say, there's more to us than what meets the eye.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Like talking to some of the guys in your community to say,

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_04]: don't become like our fathers or grandfathers.

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Break that cycle because perhaps they're stuck in that cycle

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and they don't know what the outlet is.

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I have mentioned it.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I have made videos on it in the past.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_02]: What's the feedback been like?

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's what you'd assume it to be like...

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Some people say it's refreshing.

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_02]: People that are open up and it's usually women that say it's refreshing.

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But then you have those guys that would just be like,

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, you're just a weak feminine man.

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_02]: You're not man enough.

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't know blah, blah, blah.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But the thing is, when you actually go to those comments

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and you look at their profiles,

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_02]: you'll realize these are just 12-year-old kids.

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I don't take them too hard either

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_02]: because a lot of these comments are kids

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_02]: that look up to people like Andrew Tate.

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_02]: What would you expect?

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So then it becomes more of maybe I need to be a role model.

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time,

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_02]: it's not my responsibility to be the role model either.

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Why not?

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I'm not their parent.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_02]: If I take on every kid's...

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_02]: If I take on the responsibility of being a role model for every kid,

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_02]: that's a lot on me too.

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't be myself to the same...

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time,

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to be a role model for kids because I didn't have any growing up.

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Especially from my own community.

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_02]: There was no Punjabi guy up there or Indian guy up there

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_02]: that I could see on TV and be like,

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to be like him.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I had to find other role models.

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_04]: That didn't look like you.

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_04]: So if you're from where you're sitting,

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_04]: you say...

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And I understand the argument by the way.

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not criticizing it,

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_04]: but I want to challenge you a moment.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_04]: If you're saying from where you're sitting,

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_04]: it's not your responsibility,

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_04]: given the size of your platform,

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_04]: to play the role model role.

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_04]: But then you see these 12-year-old young boys

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_04]: who are now molded by influencers,

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_04]: and I'm going to put quotations around influencers like Andrew Tate,

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_04]: who will spew a certain type of...

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_04]: A certain version of masculinity that's very aggressive,

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_04]: basically calls you a failure

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_04]: unless you're somehow making millions of dollars driving a Bugatti

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_04]: and living on an island surrounded by women in bikinis,

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_04]: you're a failure.

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_04]: How do you...

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Knowing that, seeing that,

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_04]: and then bringing in your own experience

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_04]: of not having that type of role model growing up,

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_04]: how do you balance that contradiction?

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Knowing that the same young men

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_04]: that look up to an Andrew Tate

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_04]: are also in your comment section

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_04]: because they follow you,

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_04]: they watch your videos,

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_04]: and you have that ability to really speak to them.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_04]: How do you balance that?

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_02]: What I do is I try to drop in hints every now and then.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: If something's going on at the Olympics,

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I might post about it in my story.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I might not make a video ranting about it

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_02]: because those same kids will lose interest

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and they would just leave.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You have to slowly get them into it,

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_02]: slowly have them open up to it.

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So like if I...

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's say I used to make a lot of videos

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_02]: roasting people that kind of diss Indian food in a way.

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes a woman would eat it the wrong way.

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And when I would make a reaction to a woman,

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I make sure I tone it down compared to a man.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_02]: But then every now and then you'll see comments

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_02]: that are really misogynistic.

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So I would make sure I would respond to those comments,

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_02]: pin those comments like a little pin of shame.

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_02]: So when other kids come and read those comments,

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_02]: they can see my response right at the top.

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So they can think twice before they...

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Because they probably want to comment the same thing,

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_02]: but they can think twice before they comment.

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And when they see responses to my comment,

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_02]: we're like, oh dude, I never thought about that.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_02]: They start thinking like that too,

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_02]: be like maybe I need to think about that.

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_04]: It's funny because I've had a couple of those kinds

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_04]: of conversations too, where in the comment section

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_04]: somebody would criticize something I had said

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_04]: around masculinity and how it's okay to not be okay

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_04]: and to work through things.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And I would engage in a conversation

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_04]: and then I remember this one particular gent

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_04]: who then sent me a DM saying, hey man, listen,

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know you, you don't know me.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I saw your video.

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't mean to come across aggressive,

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_04]: but I have a question for you.

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Can I ask?

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And said, sure.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And I thought it was a setup at first

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_04]: because I'm like this is a little bit strange,

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_04]: but okay.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And the question turned out to be,

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_04]: how do I find a good group of men in my life

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_04]: that I can actually have conversations with?

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Because I don't have those guys.

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And whenever I am feeling all this pent up emotion,

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I have no outlets for it.

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I don't know where to show it.

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how to show it

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_04]: because I've never been taught.

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And the people that are in my circle

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_04]: will criticize and laugh at me.

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_04]: And it was such an honest question

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_04]: and it almost broke my heart

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_04]: because it just reminded me

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_04]: how there's so many men out there

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_04]: that are in so much pain with no outlets.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's why they resort to the alcohol.

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_04]: That's why they resort to the drugs.

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_04]: That's why they resort to suicide.

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_04]: That's why they resort to aggressive behavior

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_04]: and violence against their partners

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_04]: and themselves and their children

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_04]: and all of these different things.

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's like, how do we help those men?

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's where my current struggle is.

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Now I don't know what your thoughts are on that,

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_04]: but how do we encourage more and more men

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_04]: to realize that it's okay?

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, saying, you know what, today

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I had an argument with my partner

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_04]: and she got me really upset.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm really angry.

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm anxious now.

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't focus.

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm messing up my work.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Admitting all of that doesn't make you less of a man

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_04]: because people are going to see this episode with you.

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_04]: The same 12-year-olds,

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_04]: the same men in your comments section

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_04]: are going to see this episode

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_04]: and they're going to think and feel a certain way.

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_04]: How do we bridge that gap?

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people will say like,

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, we don't take men's mental health as seriously

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_02]: as we do women's.

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_02]: We don't care about men.

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people would say stuff like that.

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like the biggest hurdle

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_02]: to men's mental health is men, right?

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_02]: It's our own attitudes, right?

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if your friend is struggling,

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_02]: don't make fun of him.

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Listen to him.

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Let him open up.

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Give him space to open up.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't be like, just get over it, right?

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_02]: You're just contributing to it, right?

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_02]: If your friend is feeling like shit,

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_02]: don't just take him on a night out

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and then think you're done with it.

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You helped your friend, he should be fine now.

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_02]: He might have fun for a night,

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_02]: but the next day is going to feel like shit, right?

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we men have to start talking to our other friends, right?

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_02]: We have to open up ourselves,

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_02]: but we have to help our friends open up too, right?

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, every woman would love to see men open up more

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_02]: or almost every woman would like that,

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_02]: to see men open up more, be more vulnerable, right?

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_02]: But men are the ones stopping men from opening up

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and then they're like, oh, nobody cares about men's mental health.

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't care about men's mental health.

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_02]: That's why, like that's what's holding us back.

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm curious when you say, you know,

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_04]: like most women want men to work through their stuff.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I agree with you, by the way.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm fascinated though,

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_04]: because when you see an Andrew Tate post

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_04]: and then you see the women in those comment sections

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_04]: saying this is what men should be like,

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_04]: and then you imagine you're a 12-year-old boy

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_04]: following an Andrew Tate.

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_04]: In the comment section, this pretty woman goes,

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_04]: this is what a real man looks like.

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_04]: You start to associate the two together and go, okay,

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_04]: if I want to grow up to be strong, rich, powerful,

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_04]: and have a pretty girl, I need to be like this guy,

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_04]: because that's what's being reinforced and fed to me.

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_04]: How do we extract those young men from this cycle,

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_04]: from this loop?

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_02]: You need to teach them to be more critical of things they see, right?

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_02]: It's something you don't learn in high school that much,

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_02]: but you need to learn critical thinking, right?

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Because if I go into this comment section,

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I see a pretty woman commenting, supporting Andrew Tate,

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_02]: being like, oh, that's what a man should be like.

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Chances are, if I click on that profile,

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_02]: she's selling something to those men

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_02]: who are stupid enough to fall for anything they see,

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and she's just using them.

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_02]: She probably doesn't even believe that.

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_02]: She's just using those guys, right?

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Because those are easy targets, right?

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you look at other women who might comment on those supporting posts of Andrew Tate,

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of them are women that are stuck in the same cycle of abusive men.

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_02]: They're just like okay with it because that's all they know.

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_02]: For them, love is abusive.

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_02]: For them, love is being dominated by a guy.

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_02]: They don't know any better.

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's maybe how their dad was.

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's how they think every guy should be.

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_03]: That's terrible.

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_02]: It is. It is horrible.

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so sad.

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It is.

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_03]: How do you, I don't even know how you fix that.

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's the thing.

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_02]: As a society, we have to come together and help people.

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't fix people's lives one by one, right?

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Takes a village.

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_02]: It does.

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_04]: So okay, I gotta go back then to the social media part of it

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_04]: because we're talking about the rise of these male influencers.

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Again, I'm going to put quotation marks around that because, you know, like

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_04]: for obvious reasons.

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Is social media evil?

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Like is the concept of social media just bad considering these young kids are growing up with

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_04]: no ability to critically think?

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_04]: They go on these platforms where they spend hours a day on these platforms.

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_04]: They don't even text their friends anymore.

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_04]: They just DM each other.

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_04]: So they're on these platforms or seeing these types of videos.

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_04]: It's reinforcing this feedback loop as their brains are so easily.

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_04]: What's the word I'm looking for?

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Like it's easy to basically influence them.

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Is social media the problem?

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's not.

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if a kid can be easily influenced by something they see online,

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_02]: their parents haven't made them secure enough, right?

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_02]: If you remove social media from it, go back like 30 years,

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that same kid would easily be influenced by the cool kids who are smoking cigarettes.

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_02]: That kid would easily be influenced by their uncle who does bad stuff.

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_02]: If your parents are there for you and they really make sure they're there for their kids,

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_02]: they have great attachment growing up, the kid feels really confident and secure,

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_02]: nothing is going to influence that kid.

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I had tons of friends that went into drugs.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I had tons of friends that went into the whole alcohol lifestyle part,

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_02]: but I never had any interest in it.

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It never affected me.

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I never felt like, oh, I need to do this to have fun because I was secure with my parents,

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_02]: how my parents taught me to not do drugs and stuff.

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you as a parent can teach your kid well,

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_02]: something on social media should not influence them.

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It should not radicalize them in any sense.

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_02]: That only happens if your kid is looking for something,

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_02]: your kid is looking for validation elsewhere maybe, right?

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And they get that validation by making andro-tape edits and posting them online,

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_02]: right?

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Because a ton of other kids who also need validation

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_02]: will just comment supporting stuff like, this is a guy, top G, alpha male, sigma male, beta,

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever.

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't even know why we're using Greek letters for things, but it's ridiculous.

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So dumb.

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Honestly, the whole thing is so dumb.

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_04]: These guys are just peddling a product to an audience of impressionable young men,

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_04]: and it's working.

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And the algorithms are picking it up because they're getting the engagement.

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And maybe you're right.

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it's just that social media is the tool

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_04]: and if you use it effectively, it'll work in any direction you send it.

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_04]: But this next generation of young men are falling into these traps

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_04]: of thinking that you have to be this top G.

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I laugh every time I say it because it's such a dumb thing.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_04]: It's sad to see, but there's also in my mind, I try to look at things,

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_04]: if there's something negative, I'm going to try to find the positive in it.

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I did a talk recently at St. Mike's College,

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_04]: which is an all boys high school here in Toronto.

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And grade 12, every year at the end of the year,

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_04]: they do a retreat before they go off to university.

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And the administration, the school asked these boys,

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_04]: what do you want your keynote to be about for your retreat?

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And they said, we want to talk about men's mental health

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_04]: because we see what's happening in the world.

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_04]: We've had friends struggle with it.

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_04]: We're about to embark on this next really big intimidating chapter of our lives

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_04]: going into university.

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_04]: We're all going our separate ways.

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_04]: We don't even know how to show up for ourselves, let alone our friends.

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_04]: So we need someone who can come in and talk to us just about

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_04]: how to have these conversations,

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_04]: how to normalize conversations between friends, guys.

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And when they brought me on to do this talk,

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I was just astonished by the fact that this group of grade 12, right?

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_04]: When I was in grade 12, I didn't even know the words mental health.

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't even piece those together.

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And the fact that they're already thinking in that way,

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I think speaks to your point earlier of how this generation of young men

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_04]: is stronger than the last generation.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And while they get a lot of shit and flack for

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_04]: the way they show up in the world or respond to things,

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_04]: there's still something to be said about the fact that

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_04]: they're at least aware of themselves, aware of their emotions,

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_04]: and are willing to go through the uncomfortable path

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_04]: of figuring out how to move forward.

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's the positive in all of it.

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's like, how do we support that other block of young men

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_04]: who are struggling, right?

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_04]: The ones that are in the poor countries across the world,

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_04]: the ones that are in war-torn areas in the world going,

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm looking for some male role model who can just show me

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_04]: some sort of positivity.

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_04]: What does positive masculinity look like, right?

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Where I don't have to think I have to be aggressive with my sisters

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_04]: or my mom to show dominance.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't have to impress my dad that way or be strong

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_04]: and intimidate my girlfriend so that she thinks of me as this strong power.

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_04]: How do we change those narratives, I guess, is the broader question.

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't expect you to have an answer.

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just kind of spitballing here.

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's part of the overall challenge.

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I love the way you speak about all of this because it's so important.

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm curious if you could speak to the gents in your audience right now.

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Imagine I'm the screen and they're watching.

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_04]: What would you say to them?

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's a lot I would want to say.

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But first of all, like, know that you're not alone, right?

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_02]: As a guy, it's easy to feel lonely, right?

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It can be really hard sharing things with your father

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_02]: because he might be strict.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_02]: He might not even be there in the picture

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and he might not be there for you when you need him.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It can be tough sharing things with friends

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_02]: because your friends might not even care.

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_02]: They might be like, get over it.

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not a big deal.

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't be such a girl, right?

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_02]: You got to find your people, right?

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You got to find people that respect you, respect your emotions.

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's not easy.

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Things take time, but things do get better.

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Just don't lose who you were as a person.

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Because when we were kids, we were nice, we were friendly,

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_02]: we were playing with each other.

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't lose that on the inside.

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't become a rock, right?

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_02]: With no emotions.

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Life is so much more than just working and providing for people, right?

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Life is so much more than just being behind the scenes, right?

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Life, it's your life.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It's about you.

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Live it the way you want to live it.

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But remember, you're not going to enjoy life

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_02]: if you don't have a community around you, right?

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_02]: If you don't share your emotions,

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_02]: if you don't build that attachment with people,

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_02]: when you grow older, there's not going to be anyone around you to help you.

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to have...

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't want to start resorting to alcohol and things like that, right?

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_02]: You really want to make sure you build that community.

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You want to make sure you really open up yourself

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and let other people...

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Let yourself be part of other people's community too, right?

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody's going to come...

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Out of their way and just start supporting you for no reason, right?

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_02]: You have to be there for others too, right?

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And as a guy, you're not alone.

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Things get better.

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to find people like...

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You might be in high school or you might be middle school or something.

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You might be in a city situation where you don't have people around you,

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_02]: but things do change, right?

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_02]: You go off to university college,

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_02]: you meet way more open-minded people than you did in high school, right?

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_02]: People that didn't grow up with you.

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_02]: People that came from different places in the world, right?

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And even social media, you can find your own communities,

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_02]: whether that's a gaming community,

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_02]: whether that's an anime community, whatever it is,

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_02]: there's always...

[00:58:47] [SPEAKER_02]: There are people there for you.

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember the quote, but there is one scene from One Piece,

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_02]: the anime, where there's a guy that just tells Nico Robin,

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_02]: one of the main characters, that you can always find people for you.

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_02]: There is people here in the world for you, right?

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_02]: You always have somebody that's there for you.

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Man, that's awesome.

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_04]: What would you say to the women?

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_04]: So you're in a position where you're married to a therapist

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_04]: and you've seen the benefits of having a supportive, loving partner

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_04]: who also allows you the space to go through

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_04]: what you're going through, to work through what you're going through.

[00:59:34] [SPEAKER_04]: I've been in...

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know about you, but I've been in past relationships

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_04]: where that was not an option.

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm in one now and it's night and day so much better.

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_04]: So what would you say to women listening to this, watching this,

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_04]: who know a man struggling with something,

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_04]: are dating or married to a man who's going through something

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_04]: and they're curious about how they can show up better

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_04]: to support that person that they care about?

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_04]: What would you say to them?

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the best way is usually to listen.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not your job to be your partner's therapist.

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_02]: My wife is not my therapist. She doesn't do therapy on me.

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_02]: We have made sure that's not a thing.

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not asking anyone to fix their man or something like that.

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_02]: But try to look at things from their perspective.

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_02]: As a guy, it's not easy to share things,

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_02]: especially when you've been taught your entire life

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_02]: to never share your feelings.

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So we need that extra space, that extra time to learn how to share things.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Again, it's not the woman's job to be the therapist,

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_02]: but encourage therapy maybe.

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Encourage him to go out with his friends

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and share things with his friends.

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't have to share everything with you.

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But if you can somehow encourage him to go to therapy,

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_02]: that's a huge step because most guys will be like,

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't believe in therapy.

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_02]: That's not a real thing. That doesn't work.

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But if you can get them to that first step, that's huge

[01:01:09] [SPEAKER_02]: because honestly everyone needs therapy of some sort.

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Even my wife goes to therapy.

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Most therapists go to therapy

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_02]: because they know how important it is.

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[01:01:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Even if you like what you think is perfect mental health,

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_02]: a therapist would probably still make it better.

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_02]: We forget but most of our life goes with like...

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean half of it is just our body going through things,

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_02]: walking around, daily life, sitting, jumping, doing whatever.

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But most of our life is spent just thinking about things.

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It is having thoughts.

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So your mental health should be a priority.

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Like if your entire life is just thoughts being combined.

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: But if you think about it in a very simple way,

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_02]: it is just thoughts.

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So you want to know how to deal with those thoughts.

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_02]: You want to know how to manage those thoughts

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and organize those thoughts if anything

[01:02:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and just make life better for yourself.

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Therapy is not necessarily to help people around you,

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_02]: it's to help you.

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_02]: But if like a family is having intervention,

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: telling the dad, oh start going to therapy,

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: he might think that's for him,

[01:02:27] [SPEAKER_02]: that's for everyone else for their lives to be better.

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't think it's for him.

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So you need to like kind of convince him that,

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_02]: dude this is for you, for your life to be better.

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's very difficult to just tell somebody who hates

[01:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: the thought of therapy like,

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_02]: oh you should go to therapist.

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_02]: That's never going to work.

[01:02:48] [SPEAKER_02]: You have to start small,

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_02]: you have to start opening up with friends,

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_02]: opening up with your family.

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And then slowly, slowly maybe you'll start thinking about therapy.

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Damn.

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I wish we had more time here.

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Like we could do a part two to this just talking about this stuff.

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_04]: But I was just going to say we had the psychotherapist

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_04]: for an NBA team on the podcast.

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Incredible speaker.

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_04]: She's fantastic.

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And she talked about how we should be treating therapy

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_04]: more as a proactive thing as opposed to just reactive.

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_04]: We typically go to therapy only when something happens.

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_04]: But if you go just to proactively put you in a position

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_04]: where if something were to happen,

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_04]: you're better prepared and equipped to deal with it,

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_04]: that's actually better for you.

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_04]: So you're not always showing up broken and miserable.

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Brother thank you so much for this amazing conversation.

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for having me.

[01:03:46] [SPEAKER_04]: No, honestly thank you.

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I love the personality or the person

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_04]: that shows up the way you do.

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Keep doing that especially if you've got the platform that you do.

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you can do such,

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you do such incredible work.

[01:04:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And thank you for sharing your time with me.

[01:04:05] [SPEAKER_04]: This was fantastic and I can't wait for people

[01:04:08] [SPEAKER_04]: in both our audience and your audience to finally hear you speak

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_04]: in this way.

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, I'm excited to see where it goes.

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much for joining me today.

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for having me.

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I really appreciate your time

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and I really enjoyed having this conversation

[01:04:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and I hope people can take something away from this

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_02]: and have conversations of their own.

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Amen to that.

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much man.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you everybody.